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Mandatory Airport Xrays

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by A2theK, Jan 3, 2010.

  1. A2theK

    A2theK Olympia Member

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    I know everyone in the media is trying to push the nudity slant of the full body xray scanners as the only arguement against having the scanners, but what about pregnant women or women who could become preganant? ..or kids being digitally stripped and have thier pictures stored (they say they aren't,but I know firsthand the images are stored and archived in an Oracle database maintained by DHS on software developed at Sandia and with grants from the NISAC project.

    Also, at risk people who have pacemakers are going to get jolted if they use induction based sensors instead of xrays. I bet we will see fetal death rates and birth defects go up as well as cancer for people who get blasted many times a year.

    Those who argue for it simply say "you have the right not to fly" - that impedes on my right to travel freely. I'm not taking a cab or bus to Cancun - sorry.

    I can't believe no one is willing to stand up and fight against this. ACLU? anyone? It's over people. From traffic cameras, to body scans, to cavity searches and all the media does is interview people who everytime say the same glassy eyed crap. "If it makes me safer - I guess I'm OK with it)
  2. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    I don't necessarily disagree with your viewpoints, but tell me; are you just complaining or do you have a better option to keep crap from happening on commercial flights? It seems obvious that the current security measures are being circumvented. Wanting to be safe when you fly to Cancun is not being glassy eyed. Its wanting to have a good vacation and still come home to loved ones unscathed, physically and emotionally. You can't tell me the people on that Detroit bound Christmas flight aren't going to have nightmares for a long while...

    Complaining is fine. But its useless unless you have a better option. If someone is trying to fix a problem, and someone else is complaining about their methods without suggesting a better alternative, the complainer is part of the problem...
  3. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    Behavior profiling is used in Israel. What would you think of this for a solution?


    The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother
    December 30, 2009 00:12:00

    Cathal Kelly
    Staff Reporter
    While North America's airports groan under the weight of another sea-change in security protocols, one word keeps popping out of the mouths of experts: Israelification.

    That is, how can we make our airports more like Israel's, which deal with far greater terror threat with far less inconvenience.

    "It is mindboggling for us Israelis to look at what happens in North America, because we went through this 50 years ago," said Rafi Sela, the president of AR Challenges, a global transportation security consultancy. He's worked with the RCMP, the U.S. Navy Seals and airports around the world.

    "Israelis, unlike Canadians and Americans, don't take s--- from anybody. When the security agency in Israel (the ISA) started to tighten security and we had to wait in line for — not for hours — but 30 or 40 minutes, all **** broke loose here. We said, 'We're not going to do this. You're going to find a way that will take care of security without touching the efficiency of the airport."

    That, in a nutshell is "Israelification" - a system that protects life and limb without annoying you to death.

    Despite facing dozens of potential threats each day, the security set-up at Israel's largest hub, Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport, has not been breached since 2002, when a passenger mistakenly carried a handgun onto a flight. How do they manage that?

    "The first thing you do is to look at who is coming into your airport," said Sela.

    The first layer of actual security that greets travellers at Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion International Airport is a roadside check. All drivers are stopped and asked two questions: How are you? Where are you coming from?

    "Two benign questions. The questions aren't important. The way people act when they answer them is," Sela said.

    Officers are looking for nervousness or other signs of "distress" — behavioural profiling. Sela rejects the argument that profiling is discriminatory.

    "The word 'profiling' is a political invention by people who don't want to do security," he said. "To us, it doesn't matter if he's black, white, young or old. It's just his behaviour. So what kind of privacy am I really stepping on when I'm doing this?"

    Once you've parked your car or gotten off your bus, you pass through the second and third security perimeters.

    Armed guards outside the terminal are trained to observe passengers as they move toward the doors, again looking for odd behaviour. At Ben Gurion's half-dozen entrances, another layer of security are watching. At this point, some travellers will be randomly taken aside, and their person and their luggage run through a magnometer.

    "This is to see that you don't have heavy metals on you or something that looks suspicious," said Sela.

    You are now in the terminal. As you approach your airline check-in desk, a trained interviewer takes your passport and ticket. They ask a series of questions: Who packed your luggage? Has it left your side?

    "The whole time, they are looking into your eyes — which is very embarrassing. But this is one of the ways they figure out if you are suspicious or not. It takes 20, 25 seconds," said Sela.

    Lines are staggered. People are not allowed to bunch up into inviting targets for a bomber who has gotten this far.

    At the check-in desk, your luggage is scanned immediately in a purpose-built area. Sela plays devil's advocate — what if you have escaped the attention of the first four layers of security, and now try to pass a bag with a bomb in it?

    "I once put this question to Jacques Duchesneau (the former head of the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority): say there is a bag with play-doh in it and two pens stuck in the play-doh. That is 'Bombs 101' to a screener. I asked Ducheneau, 'What would you do?' And he said, 'Evacuate the terminal.' And I said, 'Oh. My. God.'

    "Take Pearson. Do you know how many people are in the terminal at all times? Many thousands. Let's say I'm (doing an evacuation) without panic — which will never happen. But let's say this is the case. How long will it take? Nobody thought about it. I said, 'Two days.'"

    A screener at Ben-Gurion has a pair of better options.

    First, the screening area is surrounded by contoured, blast-proof glass that can contain the detonation of up to 100 kilos of plastic explosive. Only the few dozen people within the screening area need be removed, and only to a point a few metres away.

    Second, all the screening areas contain 'bomb boxes'. If a screener spots a suspect bag, he/she is trained to pick it up and place it in the box, which is blast proof. A bomb squad arrives shortly and wheels the box away for further investigation.

    "This is a very small simple example of how we can simply stop a problem that would cripple one of your airports," Sela said.

    Five security layers down: you now finally arrive at the only one which Ben-Gurion Airport shares with Pearson — the body and hand-luggage check.

    "But here it is done completely, absolutely 180 degrees differently than it is done in North America," Sela said.

    "First, it's fast — there's almost no line. That's because they're not looking for liquids, they're not looking at your shoes. They're not looking for everything they look for in North America. They just look at you," said Sela. "Even today with the heightened security in North America, they will check your items to death. But they will never look at you, at how you behave. They will never look into your eyes ... and that's how you figure out the bad guys from the good guys."

    That's the process — six layers, four hard, two soft. The goal at Ben-Gurion is to move fliers from the parking lot to the airport lounge in a maximum of 25 minutes.

    This doesn't begin to cover the off-site security net that failed so spectacularly in targeting would-be Flight 253 bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab — intelligence. In Israel, Sela said, a coordinated intelligence gathering operation produces a constantly evolving series of threat analyses and vulnerability studies.

    "There is absolutely no intelligence and threat analysis done in Canada or the United States," Sela said. "Absolutely none."

    But even without the intelligence, Sela maintains, Abdulmutallab would not have gotten past Ben Gurion Airport's behavioural profilers.

    So. Eight years after 9/11, why are we still so reactive, so un-Israelified?

    Working hard to dampen his outrage, Sela first blames our leaders, and then ourselves.

    "We have a saying in Hebrew that it's much easier to look for a lost key under the light, than to look for the key where you actually lost it, because it's dark over there. That's exactly how (North American airport security officials) act," Sela said. "You can easily do what we do. You don't have to replace anything. You have to add just a little bit — technology, training. But you have to completely change the way you go about doing airport security. And that is something that the bureaucrats have a problem with. They are very well enclosed in their own concept."

    And rather than fear, he suggests that outrage would be a far more powerful spur to provoking that change.

    "Do you know why Israelis are so calm? We have brutal terror attacks on our civilians and still, life in Israel is pretty good. The reason is that people trust their defence forces, their police, their response teams and the security agencies. They know they're doing a good job. You can't say the same thing about Americans and Canadians. They don't trust anybody," Sela said. "But they say, 'So far, so good'. Then if something happens, all **** breaks loose and you've spent eight hours in an airport. Which is ridiculous. Not justifiable

    "But, what can you do? Americans and Canadians are nice people and they will do anything because they were told to do so and because they don't know any different."
  4. ZachS

    ZachS Eugene/PDX Active Member

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    I've flown out of Israel. The behavioral profiling is done by extremely intelligent and well-trained veterans of elite military units, and takes place at a very limited number of airports worldwide. It would be impossible to replicate on a large scale.
  5. A2theK

    A2theK Olympia Member

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    I see what you are saying and I do have a better - option - Do Nothing! Do not give in. "They" see Americans as weak and reactive. All I know is terrorism or whatever the buzz word is of the new millennium has been happening since the beginning of time. I consistently hitchhike/travel in an unorthodox way for most in Cancun and even Honduras for crying out loud so I obviously am not too concerned for my safety even in adverse situations.

    I'm not afraid of someone taking out a plane even if I or my family member perishes in the process. I don't see why everyone is so scared of their mortality.

    That's what freedom is about. That's why there is the saying of "those who sacrifice sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither"

    Sometimes it is actually best to do nothing. Terrorists know that they can act and we will react - to the point of turning the "beast" (us) on itself and crushing it from the inside.

    As much as I hate to be xenophobic and racist - I say let the profiling begin because if our government treats us all as terrorists it will breed more domestic terror cells and maybe save a few planes or buildings, but it's not worth it for what we'd all have to give up.
  6. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    So whats your alternative? Not giving in is a very fine concept that I agree with, but the fact of the matter is that the Constitution of the USA mandates the federal government to "provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States."

    I can provide myself and my family with security when I am in an environment I can control. Unfortunately an airliner is not an environment I can control. I believe in self-reliance very much, but it has its limitations (unfortunately)...

    I am not afraid of my own mortality. I am comfortable with my eternal salvation. But eternal salvation, does not remove the grieving of those left behind when a senseless, avoidable tragedy occurs. It was never meant to. I would be sad if a loved one had been killed in a terrorist attack, as my loved ones would be sad if it happened to me.
  7. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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  8. Randini

    Randini Salem Member

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    Archie Bunker was cool,
    I think that those who try to blow up things will move on to other ways of doing it, how about implants in the body ? breast, stomach, we should try to counter but there will always be something new.
  9. ORBrit

    ORBrit Eugene Member

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    Mandatory Xrays? There's a reason the X Ray techs stand behind a lead lined wall or window when shooting Xrays. A frequent flier could be Xray-ed as many as 200 times a year. There's got to be some research into safe levels of exposure to that much electromagnetic radiation.

    I don't see the behavior profiling being as effective over here, without adding a lot more money into training and hiring of the qualified personnel to become experts at this.
    I don't see your average TSA employee being capable of distinguishing behavioral traits of someone who is a nervous flyer, vs. someone who is smuggling an extra bottle of duty free liquor etc.

    This country is also vastly more multicultural than Israel, so bring in all those ethnic personality and behavioral differences and you're reducing your success rate even more.

    I think the psychological aspect of multiple security layers is more intimidating to a would be terrorist than a single thorough security checkpoint.

    Also rather than invest in training of behavioral experts, I say put the money into training more sniffer dogs. Could you imagine dozens of dogs sniffing everyone and everything that comes into an airport!
  10. glockguy

    glockguy Albany Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Well From wat I get from the news this only has to do with people flying into the US.. from an outside county.
  11. jdub75

    jdub75 PNW Well-Known Member

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    great thread.
    Two Clones has some GREAT quotes...and Zach hit the nail on the head.
    America is NOT ready for true security. Back in the 90's I traveled Europe w/ my brother, and to this day recall the level of security at TRAIN stations. Armed military w/ FA weapons stopped me (17 year old w/ a killer mullet) and went thru all my bubblegum. Totally cool w/ me, just how it was. And who argues w/ a dude w/ a FAL or whatever they had??
    TSA in this country:
    HS grads (maybe) w/ training geared to their level of understanding to make it appear as if they are making things safe. Thats whey people are pissed IMO. Doofus's put a 6 year old girl in a bomb sniffer in PDX last time I was there! Exactly what profile does that fit??

    We spend how much a DAY in Iraq/Stan for private security & whatnot, but feel we cannot have intelligent folks working TSA? THAT is a management issue, and an you and me issue.
    Pay TSA folks 60k+ a year, and see what you'll get. Intelligent decision makers, Give them the tools. Then comes efficient airport security.

    And that Sela guy has it right IMO...I DO NOT trust the people in charge of our 'security' (now or the past 8 years).
  12. dobanion

    dobanion North Portland, Oregon Member

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    Some of this sounds like the show "Lie to Me." Seeing intent in a persons face, their speech patterns.

    When it comes to human intelligence and security, we could learn a lot from the Israelies. It's about time we admit we don't know everything and ask for their guys to train some of ours.

    And from the news it's apparent security at airports and airplanes in flight isn't working in North America. The Gilligan's Island note incident about tops the recently ridiculous.
  13. LogicBomb

    LogicBomb Grants Pass Active Member

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    heres what ya do is cut out the letters "TSA SUCK THIS" out of tinfoil and paste them under your shirt with a arrow pointing south dont forget to paste them on backwards
  14. capdek

    capdek Oregon Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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