Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

Making "glove box carry" illegal.

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by PlayboyPenguin, Feb 1, 2011.

  1. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    4,833
    Likes Received:
    1,744
    On another forum member suggested that states should just make leaving a gun in an unoccupied vehicle illegal. They felt it would solve a lot of problems and address some ethical issues.

    I cannot disagree more.

    Why would anyone ever even consider making it the fault of the victim if their personal property is broken into and items stolen from said property are used for ill means. If a person takes reasonable precautions to secure a firearm in their vehicle why should they not be entitled to assume their personal property will not be vandalized or stolen. Even worse, why would anyone fault them for something the criminal then did with the stolen item?

    If someone breaks into my home (or just walks in if I leave a door unlocked) and steals a knife from my kitchen should I be responsible if they then go and kill someone with that knife? Should I be preemptively punished simply for having knives on my counter and not locking my door?

    Why should we take responsibility away from the criminal and place it on the victim for any reason? Maybe I am way off base on this one (it would not be the first time), but I just cannot understand this kind of thinking.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. BillM

    BillM Amity OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    1,072
    Likes Received:
    498
    Heck--without even considering the moral, ethical or whatever issues. lets just look at the mechanics of this screwball
    proposal.

    I'm going to the Post office/courthouse/where ever that doesn't allow guns. Wanting to be a law abiding citizen.
    WHAT TO DO WITH MY CARRY GUN???? Golly. Can't take it with me, can't leave it in my "unocccupied vehicle".
    Hmmmmmm? Toss it on the roof of the car and hope nobody notices? To whoever proposed this, "engage
    brain before operating keyboard".
     
  3. pioneer461

    pioneer461 Columbia County, Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    142
    I agree 100% that the victim of a theft should not be held liable for what the criminal does with stolen property.

    I disagree that a glove box, or any other box for that matter in an automobile, is a good place to store a firearm. Most car prowlers are speed freaks looking for anything they can get their hands on to pawn or trade for drugs. When they go into your car for the stereo and they find a gun, they have just won the lottery! Your insurance may cover your cost of the theft, but nothing covers the cost to society by having another armed drug addict on the streets.

    If you are going to a place that you know absolutely will not allow firearms such as a courthouse, leave it at home locked in your gun safe. (You do have a gun safe don't you?)

    While driving to your destination and then back home, do your best to avoid any situation where you may be forced to defend yourself. Don't stop at the local "stop-n-rob" for that double mocha on the way, but get back home asap and gun-up. We can not eliminate all risks, but we can do our best to avoid many.

    police.png
     
  4. Kimber Custom

    Kimber Custom Vancouver, WA Bronze Vendor Bronze Vendor

    Messages:
    1,791
    Likes Received:
    1,435
    I "do my best to avoid any situation" all the time. I still choose to carry a gun because sometimes (it only takes once) I'm not afforded that opportunity. My personal 'higher calling' is to my wife and kids; not society.

    On those occassions that I must go some place with metal detectors I will lock it in the car. Frankly there is no logical reason for me not to be allowed to carry EVERYWHERE. Courthouse, PD, Blazer games etc. etc. etc. To assume that I will suddenly become a criminal while I'm sitting on jury duty is absurd.
     
  5. salmonriverjohn

    salmonriverjohn N.W Oregon coast, Gods country Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,145
    Likes Received:
    4,257
    If someone breaks into my vehicle, they will not find my weapon without a VERY extended search. Pioneer 461, I will not leave my weapon at home, and yes I have gun safes,, several. I appreciate your service as a law enforcement officer, you of all people should know that when when you need to defend yourself or a loved one in thirty seconds or less, you have no one else to depend on, and help is usually farther off than that. No disrespect intended, John.
     
  6. el gringo loco

    el gringo loco PDX Member

    Messages:
    275
    Likes Received:
    6
    I don't believe one should blame the victim, I think it is borderline negligent to leave a gun in an unattended vehicle. Have I done it? Yep. But, I think that, if you are going to leave a gun in your car with any regularity, you should seriously look at installing a gunsafe or secure it in the trunk (after disabling the release). I understand that sometimes situations arise unexpectedly and you have to leave your gun in less than ideal place. I also figure that anything left in a car will be stolen eventually.

    I think that every gun owner needs to recognize that it doesn't matter whether or not someone should be breaking into your vehicle. By leaving your gun in a place where there is a fairly high probability it will be stolen, you are potentially giving a gun to the kind of person that gives guns a bad name. You are giving the anti gun folks one more incident that portrays gun owners as irresponsible or one more incident where a gun is used in a crime.
     
  7. Teufel_Hunden

    Teufel_Hunden Albany, Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    41
    This is one of the few times I agree whole heartedly with PP.

    If one makes a reasonable attempt to secure ANY private property that should be enough. While I also feel glove box carry is NOT the best solution, in a locked vehicle out of sight is secured!

    Furthermore yes a law abiding CHL holder should be able to carry anywhere. (yes period)

    T_H
     
  8. When I leave my gun in my vehicle, I put the magazine in the glovebox. If the area is private, I lock the gun to one of the carseat anchors in the back (it's a hatchback so it's well covered) using a cable lock. If the area is public, I lock it under the seat to the seat frame.

    This is more than alot of people do in their homes. Should what I do be illegal?
     
  9. salmonriverjohn

    salmonriverjohn N.W Oregon coast, Gods country Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,145
    Likes Received:
    4,257
    Posted by Sargentmac>>This is more than alot of people do in their homes. Should what I do be illegal?<< No Sarge, not in my opinion.
     
  10. el gringo loco

    el gringo loco PDX Member

    Messages:
    275
    Likes Received:
    6
    But it's not.

    Perhaps it is because I live a larger city, or maybe it is because I have had my car broken into a few times, but I know that a gun is not truly secured when it is in a locked vehicle out of sight. Does it show an effort to secure the gun? Yes. But, anyone who thinks that doing this will keep their gun from being stolen is kidding themselves.
     
  11. techieguy

    techieguy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    167
    A narrow point of view that may work for a city dweller... Certinally this wouldn't work for myself and yes I do have a secured locking container that I keep my pistol in when I can't carry.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2011
  12. rodell

    rodell Newcastle, WA Active Member

    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    46
    In New York (state, not city) you are liable as an accessory if your gun is stolen and a crime is committed with it. The presumption is you didn't do "enough" to secure it. There is a similar statute in Massachusetts. I don't know how many prosecutions are undertaken.

    I look at car storage as "if you gotta you gotta". It happens. If I want to go shooting after work, I have little choice. Handguns or long guns, doesn't matter.

    If the law was such that I could never leave any firearm in the car, my shooting and carry would be very much affected. Where's the line? Running into the fast food restaurant on the way to shooting or hunting? 1 minute? 5 minutes?

    I do try to use discretion, and, don't store in my car in some circumstances. There's always the chance, though.
     
  13. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills Cave Creek, Arizony Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,500
    Likes Received:
    710
    I agree with the OP, otherwise it is just like saying that pretty girl wouldn't have been raped if only she had covered up better.
     
  14. Teufel_Hunden

    Teufel_Hunden Albany, Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    41
    El,

    I agree that it would be "less" secure than in my jacket pocket, in my home, in my gun safe, in a safety deposit box etc etc.....

    We dont assume that the auto is unsecured just because we arent there to watch it. It's the chance we all take everyday in life.

    If we all avoided every scenario that could cause us loss or bodily harm none of us could ever leave our homes.

    Again as long as reasonable care is taken to secure the firearm one has done thier due dillegence to insure that the item (firearm) is not stolen.

    We certainly don't need another FREAKING law regulating legal, law abiding gun owners rights.

    Also the whole New York thing is just as assinine as it could be. I wished NY and Cali would both just slide off into the ocean!


    T_H

    :chairfight:
     
  15. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,089
    Likes Received:
    1,310
    I've been keeping a .44 Spec with CT laser on it in an unlocked compartment in my car. I really don't like that so I ordered a car safe from the NRA site, it's supposed to be here tomorrow. My vehicle has a built in locking compartment in the floor, but the door is plastic and will break if pulled hard.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

    Deen
    NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
    WAC member
    SWWAC member
     
  16. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,089
    Likes Received:
    1,310
    Have they ever located the Seattle Chief of Police's sidearm that he locked in his car in Seattle? He certainly should know better!!

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

    Deen
    NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
    WAC member
    SWWAC member
     
  17. el gringo loco

    el gringo loco PDX Member

    Messages:
    275
    Likes Received:
    6
    TH,

    I agree that a law would be asinine. But, I think that doing "due diligence" and understanding what is potentially at risk are two different things. I would venture to say that a firearm left out of sight (or even in a locked glovebox) in a locked vehicle is at a greater risk of being stolen than one left unsecured in a home or almost anywhere else-at least in Portland. Cars are broken into with great regularity here. I realize this risk is very different in other parts of the state. My point is that we as responsible gun owners (ambassadors of the gun community, if you will) should go beyond the bare legal minimums and attempt to exemplify the sort of behavior that we wish to portray as that of the "average gun owner." Every gun that falls into the hands of a criminal, regardless of what steps were taken to prevent it, is a gun that will be used to limit our access and ownership of firearms. By avoiding situations that unnecessarily risk a gun theft, we limit the number of anectdotal gun theft stories that can be used against us. Whether legally or ethically responsible for what happens with a gun once it is stolen from us, we will be held responsible, as a whole, for those situations when they occur. In that sense, I think gun owners (especially in the city) need to recognize that vehicles are a lousy place to leave a firearm.
     
  18. mattg521

    mattg521 portland.,or Member

    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    17
    Illegal? Absolutely not!!
    Lets not go blaming the victim.
    On the other hand I do agree with Gringo that we owe it to ourselves and the gun community as a whole as well as our fellow human beings to make efforts to avoid our guns ending up in the hands of the bad guys.
    New laws criminalizing burglary victims just isn't the answer.
     
  19. PBinWA

    PBinWA Clark County Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,092
    Likes Received:
    359
    Exactly. We don't need more stupid laws. We need enforcement of the existing laws.
     
  20. Scott

    Scott Battle Ground Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,021
    Likes Received:
    154
    I think this is the first time I agreed as well with PP. Many first timers PP, thats good and you are coming to the dark side.

    As for being responsible? They can kiss my %^*. Everytime it seems like it goes back to the victim. They should have done that, or did this. For once in one's stupid head he makes these laws make the criminal pay not the victim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I have a right to privacy in car just like at home and stealing from my home is the same as stealing from my car. The person accountable is the person or %$^*!@#$ who stole it in the first place.

    Who ever said make illegal should come up with the ideas why? I cannot think of why it should be but more laws only hit honest people.

    GJ PP and good comments.