Long distance shooters and Glass

[Legs]

Anyone have any experience with Steiner rifle scopes? A cop buddy of mine had a set of Steiner Police 10X binos that were unbelievably clear, great at low light and self focusing. I bellied up and dropped the coin for my own set and even got the 10X compact a year later. So now I'm thinking of scoping a 6.5 Creedmoor. I have always liked Leupolds, but that Steiner glass.....

 

[DizzyJ]

For long range not just the glass, but the reliability of the tracking is important.

Vortex Rasor
Vortex Viper PST
SWFA SS (various)
USOptics
Are the platforms I use for long range and extended long range shooting.

 

[11Charlie]

Vortex Viper PST

What I have on mine now. Love it but my leupold is clearer!

 

[DizzyJ]

What I have on mine now. Love it but my leupold is clearer!

Which model? Maybe I missed it.

 

[Dwesson]

I used to be a buyer in the industry so I have been behind and/or used the majority of the stuff out there at one point.

In my humble opinion. If i was going to buy another optic for long range shooting (by my definition 800+), I would be heavily considering a Kahles K624i. I have shot behind them personally, they are dead nuts reliable and have great glass with a good weight. A lot of PRS shooters use them as well.

KAHLES: Riflescopes

On the higher magnification side i own personally:

Leopold Mark 8 3.5-25
US Optics ERS 25
Vortex Razor HD II 4.5-27
Bushnell ERS 3.5-21

I don't think you can go wrong with Nightforce glass either, but their price point is getting up there. I believe they are trading a bit on their name (*cough* S&B). There's a lot of options now in the industry vs 10 years ago so that's fantastic.

 

[Redeemedson1]

Not to be much of an jerk....especially since I mostly just read through the forum and basically never comment...I must say that I have grown tired of the "Long Distance" and "Scope" discussion. In today's shooting world long distance is most commonly considered 1000-1400 yards and over that is Extreme Long Distance...So...if this is what you are meaning then the scope will need to be completely different than ANYTHING under 1000 yards you will pay a month or two wages for your scope...so from what I can tell...you want advise for UNDER 1000 yards...well first..this mostly depends on what you are planning on doing...competition...fixed high power scope...most any will do...at these ranges...a good 6x or 10x or even 14x fixed scope...for plinking, target shooting or hunting...well...about anything with a decent BDC reticle will do...but Primary Arms FFP scopes are you best choice for price and quality ($280)...amazes me how many are caught up in marketing (Vortex) and brand loyalty (Leupold) and waste such good money on scopes that have fallen aside to new and better companies. Especially since almost all the scopes are made in the same dam factories...You don't need a $800 Vortex or $1500 Leupold for under 1000 yards..I wouldn't buy either of those 2 brands in the first place myself..My $150 BDC Weaver 3x9x40 on my AR15 touches anything I want at 600 yards without trying and has killed several deer....Just my 2 cents....oh...and 40 years experience.

 

[11Charlie]

Which model? Maybe I missed it.

I quoted the one I have.

 

[Redeemedson1]

Just a P.S. to my last post...To all you shooters out there that think spending more money and buying more expensive scopes will make you a better shooter...maybe think more about going back to shooting school and learn HOW to shoot instead...if you don't have ALL your fundamentals down you will never improve...scopes are not magic shooting pills...there are guys out there that can hit 2000 yard targets with open sites...so let's get real for once...again...just my 2 cents..take it for what it is worth..

 

[11Charlie]

Not to be much of an jerk....especially since I mostly just read through the forum and basically never comment...I must say that I have grown tired of the "Long Distance" and "Scope" discussion. In today's shooting world long distance is most commonly considered 1000-1400 yards and over that is Extreme Long Distance...So...if this is what you are meaning then the scope will need to be completely different than ANYTHING under 1000 yards you will pay a month or two wages for your scope...so from what I can tell...you want advise for UNDER 1000 yards...well first..this mostly depends on what you are planning on doing...competition...fixed high power scope...most any will do...at these ranges...a good 6x or 10x or even 14x fixed scope...for plinking, target shooting or hunting...well...about anything with a decent BDC reticle will do...but Primary Arms FFP scopes are you best choice for price and quality ($280)...amazes me how many are caught up in marketing (Vortex) and brand loyalty (Leupold) and waste such good money on scopes that have fallen aside to new and better companies. Especially since almost all the scopes are made in the same dam factories...You don't need a $800 Vortex or $1500 Leupold for under 1000 yards..I wouldn't buy either of those 2 brands in the first place myself..My $150 BDC Weaver 3x9x40 on my AR15 touches anything I want at 600 yards without trying and has killed several deer....Just my 2 cents....oh...and 40 years experience.

If your tired of the conversation then don't read it. That makes it pretty simple. I don't think anyone in this thread said that a scope will make you a better shooter. It started with me saying that the glass on my Leupold was clearer than my vortex and that I was having issues with my eye's focusing that day at the range using my Vortex scope.

 

[DizzyJ]

Just a P.S. to my last post...To all you shooters out there that think spending more money and buying more expensive scopes will make you a better shooter...maybe think more about going back to shooting school and learn HOW to shoot instead...if you don't have ALL your fundamentals down you will never improve...scopes are not magic shooting pills...there are guys out there that can hit 2000 yard targets with open sites...so let's get real for once...again...just my 2 cents..take it for what it is worth..

Couldn't agree more. That said, you won't see any matches being won with an NC Star or BSA tactical scope.

The fundamentals are assumed, at least by me when a shooter asks about a high end long range optic.

 

[Dwesson]

Just a P.S. to my last post...To all you shooters out there that think spending more money and buying more expensive scopes will make you a better shooter...maybe think more about going back to shooting school and learn HOW to shoot instead...if you don't have ALL your fundamentals down you will never improve...scopes are not magic shooting pills...there are guys out there that can hit 2000 yard targets with open sites...so let's get real for once...again...just my 2 cents..take it for what it is worth..

No offense, but why do you care what someone spends on an optic?

Anecdotally pointing out a single person who hit a target after MANY misses using irons at 2K yards is a bit of a red herring if I've ever heard one. I mean by that logic why do you have an optic on your AR for deer hunting?

 

[osprey]

Vernier sights on a 50 bmg? Cool!

 

[Dwesson]

Vernier sights on a 50 bmg? Cool

There's an article out there of a fellow that did it with a Swiss K31 I believe about 3 years ago. I think it was a Guiness World Record as well. And entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand....

 

[osprey]

Iam sure I could qualify for mob at 2000yds with open sights.

MOB= minute of Barn.

 

[Redeemedson1]

If your tired of the conversation then don't read it. That makes it pretty simple. I don't think anyone in this thread said that a scope will make you a better shooter. It started with me saying that the glass on my Leupold was clearer than my vortex and that I was having issues with my eye's focusing that day at the range using my Vortex scope.

That is my point...there are just as good optics available without the expense..as state...Primary Arms and others...competition in the scope market now is amazing...even a good Nikon or Weaver and even some of the $200-$300 Simmons are very nice for medium ranges of 300-1000 yards...

Couldn't agree more. That said, you won't see any matches being won with an NC Star or BSA tactical scope.
The fundamentals are assumed, at least by me when a shooter asks about a high end long range optic.

That may be true but how many have actually TRIED...not that I would compete with a $50 scope...but as I said before..competition is a different ball game....and yes..for serious shooters fundamentals are assumed..but reading threads seems many do not understand that..and go to a long range training course and you will see how many guys don't have a clue but think they do...

No offense, but why do you care what someone spends on an optic?
Anecdotally pointing out a single person who hit a target after MANY misses using irons at 2K yards is a bit of a red herring if I've ever heard one. I mean by that logic why do you have an optic on your AR for deer hunting?

I care because I see it as waste of money for something they really do not need...maybe spend that money on more ammo to become a better shot or an even better idea...spend that money supporting GOA or local pro-gun groups to help stop the anti-gunners..I live on a disability income so every dime I spend means something...and I do not waste it just because I have it..every decision for every dime is well thought out and purchases are researched thoroughly...also...as for open sites...at least in my area...I know many who can make amazing shots just about every time..because they KNOW their fundamentals..but even with a scope there are always going to be a miss or two..a wind change or miscalculation of distance will throw you off every time..And as for a scope on my AR..that is because many of the areas I hunt in shots on deer can easily be 3-400 yards but mostly because I ALWAYS want to be sure of my target while hunting when there are hundreds of other hunters in the area....better safe than sorry right??

 

[Redeemedson1]

Iam sure I could qualify for mob at 2000yds with open sights.

MOB= minute of Barn.

That would be myself..lol..my eyesight is no long good after about 600 yards...

 

[Dwesson]

I care because I see it as waste of money for something they really do not need...maybe spend that money on more ammo to become a better shot or an even better idea...spend that money supporting GOA or local pro-gun groups to help stop the anti-gunners..I live on a disability income so every dime I spend means something...and I do not waste it just because I have it..every decision for every dime is well thought out and purchases are researched thoroughly...also...as for open sites...at least in my area...I know many who can make amazing shots just about every time..because they KNOW there fundamentals..but even with a scope there are always going to be a miss or two..a wind change or miscalculation of distance will throw you off every time..And as for a scope on my AR..that is because many of the areas I hunt in shots on deer can easily be 3-400 yards but mostly because I ALWAYS want to be sure of my target while hunting when there are hundreds of other hunters in the area....better safe than sorry right??

Got it, you think you know better how to spend my money than I do. Look, I'm not going to tell someone how they should spend their money in a thread about optics because it's none of my business what their finances are.

The question was about quality glass for the purposes of long range shooting (which I defined in my reply as > 800 yards).

You're making a lot of assumptions about people's financial situation and shooting ability which isn't really relevant to the question.

While I don't think you need a 3-25x Nightforce to shoot 300 yards, I'm not going to tell someone to spend that money on ammo if that's what they want cause I assume they need more trigger time.

 

[DizzyJ]

One thing I didn't mention, but have you adjusted the eyepiece into focus for YOUR eyes?

 

[Redeemedson1]

Got it, you think you know better how to spend my money than I do. Look, I'm not going to tell someone how they should spend their money in a thread about optics because it's none of my business what their finances are.

The question was about quality glass for the purposes of long range shooting (which I defined in my reply as > 800 yards).

You're making a lot of assumptions about people's financial situation and shooting ability which isn't really relevant to the question.

While I don't think you need a 3-25x Nightforce to shoot 300 yards, I'm not going to tell someone to spend that money on ammo if that's what they want cause I assume they need more trigger time.

I am not trying to tell anyone how to spend their money...just suggesting other options for good clean clear glass for less money than the options most people give...Hell..even my wifes $100 Bushnell dusk to dawn scope is pretty dang nice...also...some of my comments are not to SK's thread but to other comments made...I understand that he just wanted opinions for better glass as he was having a problem seeing clearly through his Vortex...I gave other options for less money...all of which have lifetime warranties and good glass...but again..choices on a scope really come down to what you are doing so there is no final answer...if you want one that is hard to kill for SHTF or combat use...well...Primary Arms works for less money at the low end and you can go up to $4000 or even more with S&B, IOR, Nightforce ect...but for 300+ yrds for general shooting or hunting any modern scope will do...most all have great glass and even the Chinese stuff including Vortex are catching up or better in quality than the Japanese (Leupold) stuff...and as for LONG RANGE...except for the really serious guys...this is subjective...you say 800 yards...I say that is medium range...others might think that extreme long range....and I have friends that would think that is just play....so the real point from my perspective is...spend as little as you need to accomplish what you want unless you are competing or need a battle scope...then spend as much as you can afford...

 

[Redeemedson1]

One thing I didn't mention, but have you adjusted the eyepiece into focus for YOUR eyes?

lol...old adage...check the simple stuff first...made this mistake before..