LEOs of Oregon, what conversations are you having?

[ineedaname]

I say kudos to the Portland police,furthermore,I think rubber bullets should be handed out to all business owners,and citizens for them to distribute as they see fit.

 

[EHJ]

Gee.... wonder why LEO is harshing on folks "with press credentials"...

Activists Encourage Protesters to Wear Press Badges to Evade Curfew

Activists are encouraging protesters to wear press badges to stay out after curfew, according to social media posts.

www.breitbart.com

 

[HaveGun]

Sadly you give up your 1st for a LOT of jobs now days. I keep warning any who will listen to be VERY careful with social media. MANY employers look at that first when hiring. You would have to make a point to not watch any news to miss the people who are fired over doing something stupid on Social media these days. If I go on there and say the wrong thing about the place I work? They have made it quite clear they can and will terminate me. Hell people LONG ago decided the 2nd is NOT a right, it's a privilege. So why should the 1st be any different?

I work for a larger corporation in a small town. Everybody knows somebody that works here. I've known people that got fired for posting on Facebook that they were sick of all the overtime. I've known people that got in a domestic dispute with their spouse and were fired the next day because the company didn't want to look bad. Never mind the whole concept of innocent before proven guilty...

Don't get me started on the flagrant nepotism and immoral behavior by those in power at the company...

The bottom line is that the concept of privacy and MYOB is completely out the window in 2020 no matter if you're a cop or some poor schmuck like me in an office. Speaking out in public against your employer WILL get back to those in charge and you will be punished.

 

[Hueco]

Gee.... wonder why LEO is harshing on folks "with press credentials"...

Activists Encourage Protesters to Wear Press Badges to Evade Curfew

Activists are encouraging protesters to wear press badges to stay out after curfew, according to social media posts.

www.breitbart.com

Creds or no creds, the're firing on individuals standing around.

They're also firing on people who are:
- Carrying and using $15,000+ worth of camera, lens, lighting, and microphone gear
- Reporter-Videographer teams
- Reporter back turned to police so as to face the camera

Just because some group is handing out fake press passes does not excuse draconian behavior towards all press, especially if you can use an ounce of logic to determine who may be official press and who may be a guy with an iPhone and fake badge.

 

[Spitpatch]

Go back and re read the rest of the story about the bonus army . There was a large contingent of socialist and communist agitators mixed in with the bonus army and it wasn't an entirely Peaceful protest if you read the news of the day.

Concerns were that allowing the bonus army to continue with their protest unabated it would have embolden the communist elements embedded with protestors .

I'm not saying what happened to the veterans is right but the narrative often repeated isn't the whole story

"and it wasn't an entirely Peaceful protest if you read the news of the day."

And what I said conveyed precisely that.

I will choose to avoid condescending reading assignments to all my fellows here. I understand such restraint is not held by all.

 

[whiskeybill]

It's good to have a spirited debate in such muddy waters. Granted, the laws pertaining to Habeus Corpus have changed or been interpreted differently over the years, and yes, I have read the Federalist Papers. I also know that as an active duty Military Policeman in the early '70s, part of our curriculum stated that we were NOT to be used in the civilian world for civilian affairs. As you stated, Title 10 allows the President to nationalize the various state militias. True. They are not the Regular Armed Forces. Keep in mind that the state National Guard is basically a political organization, as the Commanding Generals are all appointed by the Governors. There can be a conflicting loyalty there, like it or not.

Now back to the riots. Be very careful of what you may want as far as deployment of the military to handle a domestic crises. We have seen here in the not too distant past a Director of the CIA, (John Brennan), a retired Admiral and Director of NSA (James Clapper), a FBI Director (James Comey) attempt a Coup of a legitimately elected President. Keep in mind there was Congressman that was seeking the Presidential nomination was advocating the use of the military to confiscate legally owned firearms from citizens (Eric Swalwell, D- Ca). It's not a safe or healthy thing to allow that kind of precedent for any administration. Just my humble take on affairs.

Sir you are 100% wrong and I suggest you go back and re read the writings of the founders. It depends on which founder you are talking about. There is a reason there were Federalists and Anti Federalists .

Further more the acts such as the insurrection act of 1807 which was signed into law by the founders most assuredly in this case an Anti Federalist

Signed into law by President Thomas Jefferson on March 3, 1807

What the founders did not envision was that the act would have been amended multiple times over the years most recently 2007

The US military has been used multiple times by multiple presidents to enforce the law in the United States.

The first event was The Whiskey Rebellion George Washington led the army against Farmers refusing to pay the Whiskey Tax ... The most recent event was Bill Clinton's use of the US military during the Rodney Kind Riots in LA.

You need to go and re read history of specifically the late 1950's through the 1960's and see when the US military was used by the President to enforce the law. When Governors have disagreed or refused to activate the Guard under direction from the President , the President under Title 10 has Federalized the Guard to do the work against the wishes of the governors in those situations.

 

[EHJ]

Creds or no creds, the're firing on individuals standing around.

They're also firing on people who are:
- Carrying and using $15,000+ worth of camera, lens, lighting, and microphone gear
- Reporter-Videographer teams
- Reporter back turned to police so as to face the camera

Just because some group is handing out fake press passes does not excuse draconian behavior towards all press, especially if you can use an ounce of logic to determine who may be official press and who may be a guy with an iPhone and fake badge.

When the Police say - "it's over - time to go..." I can see how today's youth willfully ignore any and all consequences for their actions.
This isn't a game as most media would have people think.
It's become a war now.

Play stupid games - win stupid prizes.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Grow up watching Mao's China in the news and TV for a generation - like most of the other older vets and men here. It's all about watching history unfold. We are most definitely in the deep throes of an attempted Red Revolution here now. Make no mistake.
You've heard the term, "Useful Idiots"? Who do you think they were talking about?

Ideological Subversion is Real. Whether a person believes it or not. That's the genius of it.
Here's a simple 9 minute testimony of a man who's literal job was this very thing.
Ignore at your own peril.

 

[03A3Sporter]

As you stated, Title 10 allows the President to nationalize the various state militias. True. They are not the Regular Armed Forces. Keep in mind that the state National Guard is basically a political organization, as the Commanding Generals are all appointed by the Governors. There can be a conflicting loyalty there, like it or not.

Now back to the riots. Be very careful of what you may want as far as deployment of the military to handle a domestic crises. We have seen here in the not too distant past a Director of the CIA, (John Brennan), a retired Admiral and Director of NSA (James Clapper), a FBI Director (James Comey) attempt a Coup of a legitimately elected President. Keep in mind there was Congressman that was seeking the Presidential nomination was advocating the use of the military to confiscate legally owned firearms from citizens (Eric Swalwell, D- Ca). It's not a safe or healthy thing to allow that kind of precedent for any administration. Just my humble take on affairs.

Your thoughts about the military to include both the regular and reserve components are still incorrect . The Insurrection act allows regular US military forces to be called up by the president for this very purpose again see the LA riots regular troops were used by Bill Clinton. Further more when National Guard troops are Federalized by the President they become the regular military until they are released from Federal Service. It doesn't matter that you served in the 1970's none of this has changed its been that way a really long time . The National Guard laws have been on the books since the Militia Act of 1903 (117 years ) and the Insurrection Act has been on the books since 1807 (213 years ).

I do not know what they taught they taught you at the time, however we were most assuredly taught this when I served in the US Army from the 1980's through the 1990's. Governmental emergency powers are much larger than most people think and yes they can put the bill of rights on hold. Not saying everything about it is right but when states of emergency are declared lots of things happen that aren't especially ok.

I won't argue the slippery slope since anytime this type of stuff occurs yes we are no uncertain ground. However I am far more scared of a Democrat using emergency powers than I am most Republicans. Neither are saints and both have their own agendas. However Democrats love taking a squat on individual liberties in general . In this case I trust Trump more than I do most of these Governors and Mayors.

 

[Lasers]

Hate the looters, not the protesters
Hate the bad cops, not the good ones

Both sides really want the same thing, don't group me up with people that my ideals don't match up with.

This lady gets groped by the cop, sure let's say that was accidental/incidental, it can happen... This level of multiple men beating her as she stands, taking it.

If you told me this was from some backwards middle eastern country, I'd have believed you... But not in America.

 

[American123]

If I was a cop, I would be looking for a new career, maybe starting a private security business. As the police are further neutered, the crime will increase. Those with money will be left with little choice but to buy their security.

Also I will not judge any LEO poorly who chooses to strike, participate in sick outs, goes on disability, etc during these times of extreme ungreatfulness for the job you do.

Edit: LEOs keep in mind most depts have to pay you for two weeks of covid leave, if you qualify. Many officers will qualify. Stay home with your kids for awhile and let the ignorant leaders in your community deal with this mess. If you have been injured, suffered mental distress, etc quit toughing it out. Take leave and give yourself time to heal.

Agreed, with politicians throwing police under the bus, let it all burn, take a leave of absence and let people reap what they sow, then when the anarchy has reached a point police are desired again, come back. Rather pointless trying to help people who are saying they don't want you and aren't going to appreciate you even if you do.

 

[titsonritz]

 

[Lasers]

Oh bubblegum, I had missed that one. Bet that facking hurt

 

[Dungannon]

The number of peaceful participants in these demonstrations, all across the nation, dwarf the number of gun owners at 2A protests by several orders of magnitude. Now there is something to think about, when it comes to what "the people" are most concerned with.

 

[titsonritz]

The number of peaceful participants in these demonstrations, all across the nation, dwarf the number of gun owners at 2A protests by several orders of magnitude. Now there is something to think about, when it comes to what "the people" are most concerned with.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[EHJ]

The number of peaceful participants in these demonstrations, all across the nation, dwarf the number of gun owners at 2A protests by several orders of magnitude. Now there is something to think about, when it comes to what "the people" are most concerned with.

 

[Dungannon]

...

Your response was what I expected.

I'm not surprised that regular criminals and political radicals take advantage of the occasion to plunder and burn. I'm not surprised that the news media uses the most dramatic video to characterize the protests. And I'm not surprised that the righteous indignation of the protestors is thrown under the bus to keep the conversation focused on the criminal acts of fringe groups.

 

[EHJ]

Your response was what I expected.

I'm not surprised that regular criminals and political radicals take advantage of the occasion to plunder and burn. I'm not surprised that the news media uses the most dramatic video to characterize the protests. And I'm not surprised that the righteous indignation of the protestors is thrown under the bus to keep the conversation focused on the criminal acts of fringe groups.

I see an orchestrated insurgency utilizing every sociological and psychological tool for subversion and demoralization of our country - in whole.
Why so many cannot see that we are in - and have been in - a continual war with those who hate the US for it's inherent freedoms. War. Make no mistake. Guerrilla tactics surprised us and defeated us in SE Asia only 50 years ago - Don't be so short sighted to think those improved upon tactics don't still work today. Our enemies play a long game. Generations long. Right under our noses.

But I would love to see just ONE example of a media mis-charactarization of anyone in Virginia.

 

[Lasers]

The game our enemies play is to continue to divide us. And it's working better than they could have imagined. The russians have been playing this for years! You know how easy it is to build up 10000's of fake social media accounts that isolate us in echo chambers?

Get us so divided that we stop looking at our enemies and start fighting each other.

So divided that the same group that protested the government overreach in forcing people to wear masks but endorse the same government shooting and beating peaceful protesters.

 

[EHJ]

...but endorse the same government shooting and beating peaceful protesters.

Must have missed that part.
Who advocated for shooting and beating peaceful protesters?

 

[CLT65]

There are times when a police officer must absolutely be authoritative and aggressive. There are times when a more nuanced approach is more effective. Some people, including officers, have trouble balancing those two extremes. I apologize for my ignorance of these things, but it does seem that in recent times the authoritative approach is emphasized in many places. I realize that police officers have to deal daily with the dregs of society, people who hate and lie to you with every word out of their mouth, but it does seem that many officers come to treat everyone they come in contact with as criminal suspects.

Some of the police reforms that I've seen called for (the more moderate ones, short of defunding), seem fairly reasonable to me. I'm a strong law-enforcement supporter in general, but I've also witnessed some pretty egregious LEO behavior in the past. I understand what it feels like to be unfairly harassed/accused/charged by the police. You feel powerless, accused by authorities who should be on your side. It's a terrible thing to go through.

I don't know how my LEO friends feel about all this though. I haven't had a chance to talk to them recently because they're working crazy long hours right now.

I've long said that every human culture needs total control to avoid absolute chaos. That control can be internal (self-control) or external (law-enforcement).

Some cultures are made up of people who for whatever reason (typically religion) practice self control because of their morals and principles. Why do I not follow my animal instincts, and rob my neighbors and force myself on attractive women? Because it's morally wrong, unethical.

In a culture where individuals generally have no such ethical restrains, what keeps them from robbing, raping, and looting? The police, and you better hope the individual officers have better morals and ethics themselves, or it's going to be ugly.

In an ideal Mayberry-like society, where most people look after themselves and care about their neighbors, Sheriff Andy can do his job unarmed, with just a smile and a friendly wave. In a society where the family unit has collapsed, economic opportunity doesn't exist, and young men turn to gangs and crime because they don't know any different; aggressive, authoritative law enforcement is likely to exist. Is it a better solution to defund to police, or find some way to help the community out of their quagmire of poverty and crime?

Yes, I know my ideas are likely simplistic and idealistic, but it's all I've got. My experiences in these matters is very limited and as much as I'd like to be able to solve the world's problems, I realize it's naive to think that anyone can, and the best I can do is to protect my own.