LEOs of Oregon, what conversations are you having?

[Alexx1401]

Let's do our best to not get this locked?

I was talking to a friend who is a Washington Co. Sheriff Deputy. Asking him what he and his fellow deputies are talking about at work lately.

It was interesting to get his perspective, hear some of his frustrations/fears too. I was really interested in how they were feeling about the possibility of Trump sending the Army in and was surprised to hear they hadn't really started talking about that yet. His knee jerk reaction was not a good one, as he feels it's not the military's place to police American's on our soil.. and I agree.

I keep going back and forth on Federal help. When I watch whats going on I think what if I lived there? Many Governors are openly telling Trump to pound sand and calling him Hitler. So if I was him? I would tell them fine. I have you on tape now saying you want no help from me. So let your cities burn, you made the choice. Come November he can play the tape over and over for the voters there who want to blame him for doing nothing.

 

[American123]

You sir are correct, they also did not believe in the premise that you should have a say if you didn't have a dog in the fight so to speak. That is a premise I wholly agree with , we allow people to vote now that do not contribute to the general welfare and are a net drain.

Agreed - like how people who don't own property can vote to increase property taxes. That's the biggest bunch of bologna. T's especially disgusting then to hear these same people lament that their rent is to high while still voting to increase property taxes, and then demand "rent control." We live in "idiocracy."

 

[conmcb25]

So if I was him? I would tell them fine. I have you on tape now saying you want no help from me. So let your cities burn, you made the choice. Come November he can play the tape over and over for the voters there who want to blame him for doing nothing.

I agree, unfortunately he already played the Federal Troops are coming after you card. For a guy who seems to be rather shrewd politically. I think he made the wrong call this time. But hey what do i know?

 

[Alexx1401]

Agreed - like how people who don't own property can vote to increase property taxes. That's the biggest bunch of bologna. T's especially disgusting then to hear these same people lament that their rent is to high while still voting to increase property taxes, and then demand "rent control." We live in "idiocracy."

I have lost track of the times I have had this conversation. Some new deal to vote on to raise property tax. Those who rent are all for it. When I say you are raising your rent they deny it, get angry, tell me their landlord is scum and they want to see him hosed. When I say you raise his costs he just raises you rent. They again get angry and no longer want to hear it. Again emotion takes over and no facts are allowed past. The people in charge have done a great job of keeping a lot of people ignorant of what is going on but the blame I guess still falls on those who choose to stay ignorant and vote for their own ends

 

[Alexx1401]

I agree, unfortunately he already played the Federal Troops are coming after you card. For a guy who seems to be rather shrewd politically. I think he made the wrong call this time. But hey what do i know?

I missed where he sent them? What cities have federal troops already?

 

[03A3Sporter]

I missed where he sent them? What cities have federal troops already?

He Hasn't yet but his warning did prompt some governors to indeed activate the Guard to control the riots in some states. He specifically said on June 1 if you don't get this under control I will

 

[conmcb25]

I missed where he sent them? What cities have federal troops already?

No where as far as I know but he already said it, and Tweeted it. So its out there.Its not a reality issue. Its a perception issue. And politically I am not talking about folks who are going to vote for Trump no matter what. I am talking the fence sitters. Rino's, independents, conservative democrats. I am sure there might be some political demographics I am missing. And maybe you are right, maybe it would still be effective. I am just not convinced it will be as effective if he started with that.

 

[Alexx1401]

No where as far as I know but he already said it, and Tweeted it. So its out there.Its not a reality issue. Its a perception issue. And politically I am not talking about folks who are going to vote for Trump no matter what. I am talking the fence sitters. Rino's, independents, conservative democrats. I am sure there might be some political demographics I am missing. And maybe you are right, maybe it would still be effective. I am just not convinced it will be as effective if he started with that.

So again, he said and offered. The people in charge of the states on fire told him to pound sand and called him Hitler. So great. He offered, was shot down, the voters who watch the city burn can listen to the tapes over and over of the people they voted for threatening the POTUS if he dares help. So let the city burn. Problem solved.

 

[Spitpatch]

"If called upon, a large portion of military wouldn't follow those orders."

A short review of the Bonus March in Washington D.C. would show just to what degree they most certainly WOULD follow orders.

Not against rioters or looters, but against a (relatively) peaceful encampment of Veterans accompanied by their women and children, asking only for what was due them in a time of extreme hardship. American soldiers against American soldiers.

 

[Lasers]

Here's the audio from the call, try to listen to the whole thing if you can find the time.

 

[EHJ]

Movement to defund police gains 'unprecedented' support across US

Activists say the way to stop police brutality and killings is to cut law enforcement budgets and reinvest in services. Some lawmakers now agree

www.theguardian.com

 

[Lasers]

short review of the Bonus March in Washington D.C. would show just to what degree they most certainly WOULD follow orders.

Not against rioters or looters, but against a (relatively) peaceful encampment of Veterans accompanied by their women and children, asking only for what was due them in a time of extreme hardship. American soldiers against American soldiers.

Sickening...

Although times have changed a lot since 1932, could you imagine something like that being live streamed today?

 

[Alexx1401]

Movement to defund police gains 'unprecedented' support across US

Activists say the way to stop police brutality and killings is to cut law enforcement budgets and reinvest in services. Some lawmakers now agree

www.theguardian.com

I have long said to the "I hate all Cops" crowd, you have no clue what you are asking for. The people screaming for this are the same. They end up living in neighborhoods where Cops are afraid to come. So they end up living in fear, then they scream why are the Police not helping us. It really is a mental disorder.

 

[EHJ]

Sickening...

Although times have changed a lot since 1932, could you imagine something like that being live streamed today?

Imagine the upheaval when the Treasury stops printing checks for even just a minute today.

 

[Lasers]

These unmarked police in DC are strange. I'm sure they are probably DoD prison staff, but...

If you would have told me we'd have an un-identified police force taking arms in Washington DC, I may have believed you if we had a Dem President, but I would have laughed you out of the room if you said it would be under a GOP President.

There's lots of debates back and forth everywhere on forums, social media, etc. Maybe this is something we call all agree is unsettling.

 

[American123]

These unmarked police in DC are strange. I'm sure they are probably DoD prison staff, but...

If you would have told me we'd have an un-identified police force taking arms in Washington DC, I may have believed you if we had a Dem President, but I would have laughed you out of the room if you said it would be under a GOP President.

There's lots of debates back and forth everywhere on forums, social media, etc. Maybe this is something we call all agree is unsettling.

I find the overall debauchery more unsettling. Mind you none of this has anything to do with any claims of "justice" it's just lawlessness plain and simple. "Civilized Society" hangs by a thin thread and the only thing that makes the justice system effective (despite as inept as it may seem at times) is that the overwhelming majority of the populace place by the rules and is nice, if that weren't the case, it would get completely overwhelmed and become unreliable. We have already seen that happen with people calling the police and being told "we don't have anyone available"

 

[titsonritz]

Don't live in OR but, know a few LEO's here. Off the record? They are sick to their stomach what is going on. Most can not go on a public forum and share how they feel if they want to keep their job. I feel bad for those who are well into a career as they are stuck now. Big city Cops often have MORONS in charge who make a mess, tell the Cops to clean it up, then go to the media to throw their own guys under the buss at every turn. So what are the Cops supposed to do?

IMO they should all quit and find employment where they'll be appreciated.

 

[Lasers]

I find the overall debauchery more unsettling. Mind you none of this has anything to do with any claims of "justice" it's just lawlessness plain and simple. "Civilized Society" hangs by a thin thread and the only thing that makes the justice system effective (despite as inept as it may seem at times) is that the overwhelming majority of the populace place by the rules and is nice, if that weren't the case, it would get completely overwhelmed and become unreliable.

I can totally see that argument, but it's a tough one to validate. Let's leave the current politics out of it and just look at that angle on it's own merit.

Those who want change are always initially seen as the "law breakers".

Our forefathers committed treason, had they lost, it would still be a lesson taught today on why you just obey the crown .
The slaves were breaking laws constantly, running from their owners was against the law, some times just trying to educate themselves would be literally illegal!

It was even, as many positions are today, validated by the bible no less! God had commanded, or at least condoned this way of life, with some humans rightfully OWNING other humans... how could they be in the wrong? The Bible on their side, the law on their side....

Look at the efforts the women's suffrage movement took. Susan B Anthony and many others were breaking the law of the time constantly!

Let's not even start with abolitionist, whew, they were really breaking some laws! At the time, those in the "moral right" position felt no doubts that they were doing the right thing.


Those same people we historically now view as "in the wrong", could/would have been likely quoted with saying some very similar to what you're saying here.

My point is, that it's a logical fallacy to try and avoid.

 

[American123]

I can totally see that argument, but it's a tough one to validate. Let's leave the current politics out of it and just look at that angle on it's own merit.

Those who want change are always initially seen as the "law breakers".

Our forefathers committed treason, had they lost, it would still be a lesson taught today on why you just obey the crown .
The slaves were breaking laws constantly, running from their owners was against the law, some times just trying to educate themselves would be literally illegal!

It was even, as many positions are today, validated by the bible no less! God had commanded, or at least condoned this way of life, with some humans rightfully OWNING other humans... how could they be in the wrong? The Bible on their side, the law on their side....

Look at the efforts the women's suffrage movement took. Susan B Anthony and many others were breaking the law of the time constantly!

Let's not even start with abolitionist, whew, they were really breaking some laws! At the time, those in the "moral right" position felt no doubts that they were doing the right thing.


Those same people we historically now view as "in the wrong", could/would have been likely quoted with saying some very similar to what you're saying here.

My point is, that it's a logical fallacy to try and avoid.

The problem is, what exactly is being done other than destruction? Meaningful positive action is one thing, random destruction helps nothing but reinforce stereotypes in many cases.

 

[Lasers]

The problem is, what exactly is being done other than destruction?

I mean, I don't really have time to post all the videos of the peaceful protesting. There has been rioting and looting, no doubt. It should be stopped, no doubt. Those responsible should be prosecuted, no doubt. We're on the same page with all of that?

It's not hard to see all this tension is boiling over, causing a bigger divide in our people. You and I are likely aligned on more of our beliefs and morals than not! But we've let the media turn everything into an all or nothing, 100% with me or 100% against me.

But are you really in the belief that nothing is "being done other than destruction"? Maybe later tonight I can post some of the good discussions I've seen with Police leadership and protesters, or the videos of them walking side by side with protesters and there not be a shred of destruction in sight?

I should be able to say proudly that I'm an American. I don't support looting or destruction of property. Those who are participating in that should be arrested and prosecuted. Period.

But at the same time, I'm PISSED OFF that I'm seeing videos of police attacking the peaceful protesters, old men walking, not threatening anyone. Reporters who are complying with police, being arrested. I'm PISSED OFF that we have un-named armed police in our capital. I'm PISSED OFF that when I look around, I see people who I thought were against government overreach, calling for it.

Just stop for a second and imagine, really picture it, Obama has activated police force in the capital who refuse to identify their affiliation, you hear him speaking to our governors, threatening to call in the ARMY if they don't get control of the "anti-stay at home" protesters carrying guns around, bubblegumk, we'd be pissed! And rightfully so!!! I don't trust ANY president to take these actions.


At the end of the day, we all need to step back and realize, wrong or right, at the core, those of us participating in the discussion all most likely want the same thing, America to live up to her potential and continue to be the world leader in all things, from industry to morals. Even if we disagree on how we get there.