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legality of forewarning a possible assailant?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by RallySoob, May 10, 2011.

  1. RallySoob

    RallySoob Salem, OR Active Member

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    If you start to feel your life may soon become 'in danger' but it hasn't escalated to that point yet. Do you think it would be legal to say something like "I have a permit to carry my handgun and if I feel my life is in danger I will use it" ?

    It is illegal to brandish a weapon. So you wouldn't want to go for your gun unless you plan to use it. But what about using a phrase like this to discourage a possible attack? Obviously I'm not suggesting you would say something like this to every person you get into an argument with or anything like that. I am referring to a situation where someone is 'probably' going to attack you unless you discourage them somehow and you have done absolutely nothing to instigate them
     
  2. korntera

    korntera Oregon Member

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    Think of this, you tell a would be assailant, please be aware I have a legal permit to carry and a gun blah blah blah etc... If they don't have a gun that may scare them off, if they do have a gun, now they have the upperhand if the can draw first. I would personally keep it as the ace up my sleeve until needed.

    But i have luckily never been in that situation and hope not to be so really no way to say how I would react.
     
    Buddhalux and (deleted member) like this.
  3. RallySoob

    RallySoob Salem, OR Active Member

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    ya, I guess every situation could be very different so you cant say rather or not it is a good idea. But I'm wondering more about the legality of such a warning.
     
  4. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    I would rather try to difuse the situation than give them fuel. If you were to state that, it only gives them a heads up to the fact, you do not know what weapon they may have at their disposal. I would first access my exit stratagy then back away.
     
  5. ejmpnu92

    ejmpnu92 Hillsboro, Or Active Member

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    Depending upon the locality, it is possible that the other person may see what you are saying as intimidation and react (and claim a defense in court) in self defense.
    Not saying I agree with it or not, but if some one told me they had a gun and would use it, I would be in defensive/offensive mode and would do what I needed to do to neutralize the threat.

    "Intimidation is a crime. What is intimidation? If someone verbally threatens you, even if they have not yet touched you, they have committed the crime of intimidation, which is considered in most states as unlawful force or coercion. If someone threatens you by shouting, "I'm going to kill you!", they have already committed a crime. Intimidation. You should, in fact you must, assume that they mean what they say and immediately take whatever action you feel is appropriate under the circumstances! Do not wait until they actually attempt to murder you!"

    Self Defense Law - Your Right to Self Defense

    A little farther down in the article is this:

    "In some states, the person about to take defensive steps has a duty to warn, if it would seem to do any good. No, there is no law that even remotely implies you must tell your assailant, "I'm warning you! I know Jujitsu!" However, if you have a gun, let the intruder know it. Then see if he understands the duty to retreat."
     
  6. RallySoob

    RallySoob Salem, OR Active Member

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    right...I understand that. I would first seek an exit as well. I guess I should have worded this question better. I'm proposing something like you would be in a situation where you couldn't use an exit strategy. This would be a last ditch effort to avoid using your gun. Because I would be very hesitant to pull out my gun. Probably so hesitant I may not pull it out even when it may be justifiable. Just because I would be so afraid of legal reprocusions.

    So I'm curious about the mentioned statement being an alternative to pulling it out. There seems to be so much gray area. It seems the only real legal and justified reason to draw your weapon is while you are being beat to near death. Assuming they are unarmed anyway... Obviously if they pull a gun or knife you would have reason to draw on them. But lets assume its an unarmed person...Are you expected to fist fight them because they have no 'visible' weapons on them?
     
  7. RallySoob

    RallySoob Salem, OR Active Member

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    Thanks for the reply. The bottom protion sounds right to me. Because I wouldn't be threatning them if I were in this situation. I would be 'warning' them that I will defend myself with a gun if they plan to endanger my life. But I guess it could still be perceived as intimidation. No two sitautions are the same so this is a hard question to get a straight answer to... when I thought it out in my head it seemed more simple than this lol
     
  8. RallySoob

    RallySoob Salem, OR Active Member

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    "A person may use physical force to prevent imminent physical injury. However, a person may not use deadly physical force unless that person is in reasonable fear of serious physical injury or death.

    Most statutes regarding self defense law also include a duty to retreat clause, wherein deadly physical force may only be used if the person acting in self defense is unable to safely retreat."


    That is from your article...pretty much covers it I guess. Sounds like its better to risk someone beating you to a pulp than to risk going to jail imo

    this is a bit discouraging to read: http://www.alljujitsu.com/weapons.html
     
  9. ejmpnu92

    ejmpnu92 Hillsboro, Or Active Member

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    If I was warning them, I already perceived that they intended to endanger my life. However, if I warned them before that perception, then they may be justified in taking a defensive posture.

    "Sounds like its better to risk someone beating you to a pulp than to risk going to jail imo "

    Not really, imo. If I am getting beat on, then I did not defend myself. If I feel threatened, and have retreated and get cornered, and I still let them beat me, and I am armed, then I have not defended myself.
    If someone intends to beat on me, I take that as intent to do me harm, even if they are unarmed. I will respond with what ever means I need to stop the threat, and if after drawing my weapon, they don't retreat, my actions will be justified.
     
  10. Sasquatchvnv

    Sasquatchvnv Port Orchard Active Member

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    Over the course of my life - from a pratical standpoint, I have decided that no warning is appropriate. If and when you decide violence is your only recourse - sudden, unexpected and all out is best.
     
  11. miletwo

    miletwo Gresham, Oregon Member

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    My local firearms instructor (Blackstone Gun Safety) teaches that rather than HAVE to draw your weapon, diffusing is the best option. Like you mentioned, telling them to leave you alone first makes their intentions clear if they choose to ignore you. Try this:

    1) "STOP! Don't come any closer." --- If they continue to advance... put your hand on your weapon (ready to draw) and state again very clearly (aka yelling)...

    2) "STOP! I Have a gun and I will use it to protect myself" --- Now since you established first that you felt threatened, and you gave them an opportunity to leave you alone, now you have made it clear why and how you will do that. Now... if they CONTINUE to advance... and/or show weapon or intent to do harm.

    3) (Draw weapon - pointed at the ground but ready to raise and shoot) "I SAID STOP!"

    Again... this scenario is based on your "feeling" and the fact that the scenario has not yet escalated. You can say whatever you want (even if it's a lie)... you could say you have a gun even if you don't. Putting your hand behind your back is a pretty clear signal that you're intending to draw... that kind of thing.

    As for bodily force it's like this... If you feel like somebody will leave in an ambulance if you DON'T draw your weapon... then it's time to draw your weapon.

    Sounds like you might want to consider more training.
     
  12. RallySoob

    RallySoob Salem, OR Active Member

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    ...probably true. The more I think about it the more it sounds like a bad idea to forewarn them...glad I asked

    -miletwo, that's what I was thinking originally...Atleast you are warning them beforehand, but as mentioned above you may not have time and it could work to your disadvantage in certain situations
     
  13. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    You could claim duress to their menacing behavior as long as you did not know there was cause to be wary of the area you are in. 161.270
    But Im not a Lawyer that's my interpretation of the law.

    You may benefit from buying this.......Oregon Firearms Federation
     
  14. Shooter98

    Shooter98 McMinnville, Or. Member

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    No, it is not legal to do that. It is/can/will be perceived as threatening. I guess one way to look at it is a chl holder is allowed by law to carry for protection in case of imminant danger. Meaning you already know you're in danger, not that you "think" things may turn dangerous. It's a risky thing to do.
     
  15. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    Good way to get your weapon taken away and used against you. The element of surprise is a powerful thing.
     
  16. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    Oregon does NOT address BRANDISH... Only pointing at a person...
     
  17. RallySoob

    RallySoob Salem, OR Active Member

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    really? I could swear I read in the statutes that 'brandish' is illegal... anyone?
     
  18. Murphy

    Murphy Oregon Member

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    Nothing in the ORS in regards to "brandishing". The term Oregon uses is "menacing".

    If you have to ask yourself if you should draw your firearm you probably shouldn't. You will know when you are "in fear for your life".
     
  19. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    No warnings will be issued, the situation can either be handled without the gun or it can't. So far in this life I've never needed to pull my gun in 20 plus years of carrying daily, if I ever do need to pull it there will be no warning. Why would I give them reason to pull their own weapon?
     
  20. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    show me the ORS....