JavaScript is disabled
Our website requires JavaScript to function properly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser settings before proceeding.
We remain blessed inasmuch as, after much sturm und drang, all of these regulations will fall. The legal standard is that of "reasonableness." To clear thinkers, none of these disarmament statutes allows a "reasonable person" to know if he or she is violating the law or not. Setting the US tax code aside, the law must be clear and understandable to a reasonable person. Each of these "pre-martial law" harassment statutes has the chilling effect of making the legal keeping of arms so complex, arcane and costly that many will simply choose not to be armed. Neither does the government have the duty to protect any individual from harm.

Power seekers in all of human history have delighted in such moves, and today's versions can be no different. They agree with Chinese butcher Mao Zedong that: "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." The government has guns.

THEY do not like competition.
 
Last Edited:
The simple answer again is can you walk into a gun shop in WA state today and buy one. I still can't understand why people seek ways to make this hard.
Did gun shops in WA stop selling these? If so then the answer is right there. People can speculate on what they "might some day ban" if it makes them feel better. Bottom line does not change today. Can you walk into an FFL in WA today and buy one? If so they are not yet banned. If people want to "worry" that "some day" WA "may" ban some gun? Then I guess don't buy anything and live in fear.
Sure, I just happen to be a student of history, of the opinion that the left will keep pushing to ban civilian ownership of firearms and in blue states, we need to beat them in the courts.
 
Sure, I just happen to be a student of history, of the opinion that the left will keep pushing to ban civilian ownership of firearms and in blue states, we need to beat them in the courts.
Well hell anyone who is not deluding themselves knows where those who crave power are trying to go with this. Its not just guns. Many who have cute bumper stickers about guns and dead hands ignore the 1st amendment that is also under attack. Interestingly enough the same people who all my life have waves signs and screamed about free speech are the same people now demanding censorship. :confused:
NONE of them see anything odd about their support for this. Can't remember which one of the late great leaders coined the term "Useful idiots" but these people are just that. Those in power know what they are after. The morons waving signs and ready at attack anyone who does not agree with them are useful idiots. If they ever get what they are screaming for they will wake up to find they made slaves of themselves.
Meanwhile to get back to ONE "right", guns, this is again in the lap of those who will not lift a finger to keep their rights. As long as a LOT of gun owners keep their heads in the sand? Yes they will keep cutting at the rights one piece at a time. For now? I do "try" to get more people to pay attention and VOTE but, wringing hands over what "might happen" next month or next year does not do much for us. MANY gun owners who do at least vote fall for the "lets compromise" crap. The compromise is of course always just one more law, one more rule, one more thing the criminals are told they can ignore while too many gun owners support the crap. Telling themselves they "won" because what they want is safe. :confused:
Look at the great hoax lock down? Look how easy it was to get almost the entire nation to go along with that? I used to wonder how the hell places like Germany got the population to go along with what that kook did. Now I got to live it and see how he did it. Fear. Instill some fear and people will follow you off a cliff.
 
I read a fair amount, around here blaming gun owners, for not voting, or voting pro-gun control. Seems to me more the exception than the rule.

Better for us to focus on independents and persuasion. Anyone claiming to be a 2nd Amendment supporter but isn't paying political attention is a long gone, lost cause, IMO.

Like why to Gun Control INC. never come back after waves of new laws impressing everyone with how effective it / these were at reducing crime or suicides? Probably 'cause they don't.
 
I read a fair amount, around here blaming gun owners, for not voting, or voting pro-gun control. Seems to me more the exception than the rule.

Better for us to focus on independents and persuasion. Anyone claiming to be a 2nd Amendment supporter but isn't paying political attention is a long gone, lost cause, IMO.

Like why to Gun Control INC. never come back after waves of new laws impressing everyone with how effective it / these were at reducing crime or suicides? Probably 'cause they don't.
I VERY much wish this was true yet keeps being proven. Did you read the thread about this from Sporting Systems? Read it. Couple people forwarded the message to all their contacts. Reported back that NONE of them had any idea this was going on. Read forums like this after some new gun law goes in. For a year or better you see gun owners who "just found out". Remember the law here making a Ruger 10/22 and assault weapon? Sporting Systems put up their own money and time to give gun owners a do over. Remember what happened? Could not get enough of them to bother to sign the petition. These are just small examples of HUGE numbers of people who own a gun but will not lift a finger. Keeps getting worse because so many gun owners tell anyone who will listen its not true. :s0092:
 
I VERY much wish this was true yet keeps being proven. Did you read the thread about this from Sporting Systems? Read it. Couple people forwarded the message to all their contacts. Reported back that NONE of them had any idea this was going on. Read forums like this after some new gun law goes in. For a year or better you see gun owners who "just found out". Remember the law here making a Ruger 10/22 and assault weapon? Sporting Systems put up their own money and time to give gun owners a do over. Remember what happened? Could not get enough of them to bother to sign the petition. These are just small examples of HUGE numbers of people who own a gun but will not lift a finger. Keeps getting worse because so many gun owners tell anyone who will listen its not true. :s0092:
I don't recall that thread. If that is true at-large, then we're screwed, what else can I say?
 
ATF has made noise about reclassifying them as SBSs, but lacks the legal authority to do so - that would require changing existing laws, which is the remit of Congress. Will the ATF try anyway? Probably, but they're already getting their butts handed to them over the brace debacle for violations of the administrative procedures act and separation of powers (among the many challenges) for that exact reason. So until such a time as a formal reclassification is done, they are legal in WA.
They will try - if they get the pistol brace reg in place and push it thru the courts. They want to.

Now, don't expect law enforcement to know anything about firearm classification. They may jump to the conclusion that it's an SBS, so if confronted be prepared to politely explain the classification to them and how it differs from an SBS. That being said, unless you have one in your vehicle during a traffic stop or use one in a home defense context I can't think of a situation where they would know you have one in the first place.
This. I don't know about the Remington and others, but the Shockwave has nothing on it that says anything about it being a Shockwave - it just says Mossberg 590 and the only way a LEO or the ATF for that matter, will know that it is a legal Shockwave is to run a check on the serial number.
 
What is your take on this. I was a fed Leo living in WA. I had a personally owned and installed short barrel on my government owned shotgun. When i left the job I took it with me. Am i able to get a new or used receiver and slap on a Shockwave? I'm still confused if it all needs to be built as that originally? I want to be 100% legal per ATF.
 
What is your take on this. I was a fed Leo living in WA. I had a personally owned and installed short barrel on my government owned shotgun. When i left the job I took it with me. Am i able to get a new or used receiver and slap on a Shockwave? I'm still confused if it all needs to be built as that originally? I want to be 100% legal per ATF.
If that shotgun was a "shotgun" when it was made it will always show up as a shotgun. Meaning Fed law does not change. The reason the Shockwave came about was someone noticed the Feds had kind of left a door open. Those Cruiser shotguns were never legally a shotgun. When this first started a Co was offering a "kit" to put the birds head grip on, cut the barrel, and end up with what became later the Shockwave. When I first saw the ad for these I thought no way in hell will this fly. The Co made it real clear to ONLY do this with a Cruiser, not just any shotgun. They also suggested anyone who did this carry a copy of the letter with the gun. After a good while of watching to see what the feds would do Mossy jumped in and just started making these. Others watched and then followed too. ALL of these are "working" due to them never having been classified by feds as a shotgun. They were a firearm.
Now when you put a short tube on that gun did you get a stamp for it? If not, you just did it because you were an LEO? Not sure what you have going on at this point. If you do not want to end up in a jam I would ask a lawyer who knows for SURE, not what you are told on the net.
 
If you have an existing short barrel and you want to put it on a shotgun it would need to be one of the following:
1. A new receiver that has never previously been a completed firearm.
2. A used receiver from a pistol-grip-only shotgun - make sure that model came from the factory as pistol grip only.
3. A new pistol-grip-only shotgun.
4. A used pistol-grip-only shotgun - make sure that model came from the factory as pistol grip only.
 
This state is getting tiresome, trying to figure out what is legal and what is not.

* Short barrel shotguns are illegal in WA. Seems pretty straight forward. WA law say they are.

* But are Shockwaves and Tac-14 actually SBS, in WA? Not so straight forward.

* ATF considers them a "firearm" but not a shotgun.

So are they actually legal or illegal. You can buy them over the counter and walk out the same day. That seems to say they are legal.

But I'd bet if you are found with one in Seattle. There might be a different view. Not because they are or aren't legal but because no one really knows until WA law is tested.

What do you think?
What would George do?
 
Without knowing the length of the barrel that OP has and what the overall length of the firearm he would end up with, there is no way to give advice on his options.
 
Without knowing the length of the barrel that OP has and what the overall length of the firearm he would end up with, there is no way to give advice on his options.
Which OP? This is NOT complicated. If a shotgun was originally sold as a shotgun its one set of law. If it was say a Cruiser, it was sold as a firearm. That is the only thing to be careful of as far as fed law goes. Now state law can change from state to state. So far WA is still fine with the Shockwave as I just ordered one and the Distributor and the FFL who is going to do the transfer are both fine with the sale. People tend to often look for ways to make things complicated.
Now if someone buys a shotgun used and they are not sure what it was originally? Then they would need to be careful here.
 
Which OP? This is NOT complicated. If a shotgun was originally sold as a shotgun its one set of law. If it was say a Cruiser, it was sold as a firearm. That is the only thing to be careful of as far as fed law goes. Now state law can change from state to state. So far WA is still fine with the Shockwave as I just ordered one and the Distributor and the FFL who is going to do the transfer are both fine with the sale. People tend to often look for ways to make things complicated.
Now if someone buys a shotgun used and they are not sure what it was originally? Then they would need to be careful here.
I meant the most recent one.

It is complicated. If he puts a barrel on a PGO receiver and the overall length is less than 26" he has just made an NFA AOW. He could do so in WA after getting his Form 1 approved. So we need to know the details.
 
I meant the most recent one.

It is complicated. If he puts a barrel on a PGO receiver and the overall length is less than 26" he has just made an NFA AOW. He could do so in WA after getting his Form 1 approved. So we need to know the details.
Ok I get you now. Yes for those who want to build one they just have to make damn sure they follow the rules as in know for sure the receiver was never a shotgun then use the same stuff the others are made with and they are fine. Like I mentioned earlier this idea came about not from Mossberg. They just watched to see what was going to happen when someone started selling the kits. When it was clear the feds were going to let it go they jumped in too.
 
Ok I get you now. Yes for those who want to build one they just have to make damn sure they follow the rules as in know for sure the receiver was never a shotgun then use the same stuff the others are made with and they are fine. Like I mentioned earlier this idea came about not from Mossberg. They just watched to see what was going to happen when someone started selling the kits. When it was clear the feds were going to let it go they jumped in too.
I think there may be an issue legally with the "Cruiser" shotguns being sold/transferred as a "shotgun". I would bet that on the 4473 they are listed as such, and not "other".
 

Upcoming Events

Tillamook Gun & Knife Show
Tillamook, OR
"The Original" Kalispell Gun Show
Kalispell, MT
Teen Rifle 1 Class
Springfield, OR
Kids Firearm Safety 2 Class
Springfield, OR

New Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Back Top