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Can a "Firearm" like the Troy A4 be legally converted to a pistol or 16+ inch barreled rifle and then back to a "Firearm"?

Similar question for Mossberg Shockwave. Can a 18+ inch barrel and stock be swapped in to make it a shotgun and then be converted back to a "Firearm" again?
 
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When are you going to TCGC next?
You can always stop by the clubhouse M-F between 9am-5pm (generally speaking as hrs can vary from time to time) and ask to speak to the CRSO. Be sure to bring examples of what you have in mind and what range you would like to use them on.
Photo examples are perfectly fine in lieu of
actual guns.
 
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When are you going to TCGC next?
You can always stop by the clubhouse M-F between 9am-5pm (generally speaking as hrs can vary from time to time) and ask to speak to the CRSO. Be sure to bring examples of what you have in mind and what range you would like to use them on.
Photo examples are perfectly fine in lieu of
actual guns.
Good idea. I think there will be some questions I will have surrounding TCGC's classification system versus the ATFs, especially as the proposed brace rule gets fleshed out.

An example of that might be when a person removes a strap from a brace and shoulders it. The ATF would say it's now a stock and your firearm is a rifle. If you were to take that firearm to the BP range, an SRO might consider it a handgun. I don't know if anybody at TCGC is going to be policing barrel lengths, asking to see tax stamps, etc? It could get confusing at times and as with many situations different SROs could interpret things differently than another.

Don't even get me started on the black powder shooting situation at the different TCGC ranges, I have many questions surrounding that but I don't want to get on a list:)
 
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Can a "Firearm" like the Troy A4 be legally converted to a pistol or 16+ inch barreled rifle and then back to a "Firearm"?

Similar question for Mossberg Shockwave. Can a 18+ inch barrel and stock be swapped in to make it a shotgun and then be converted back to a "Firearm" again?
This question just shows the absurdity of the NFA.

-E-
 
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My next question is can a rifled "Firearm" be used at TCGC's BP range or would TCGC classify them as a handgun?
I asked the RO this question in regards to braced pistols a couple months ago. His response was that they will consider how you are shooting it. For example, if you have a braced AR pistol you can shoot it at the GP rifle range if you are basically "shouldering the brace". It also meant you could not shoot that AR pistol at the short range pistol bays if you "shouldered" it while shooting. I am not sure if this is official and documented procedure now, but this is what that one RO told me.
 
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I asked the RO this question in regards to braced pistols a couple months ago. His response was that they will consider how you are shooting it. For example, if you have a braced AR pistol you can shoot it at the GP rifle range if you are basically "shouldering the brace". It also meant you could not shoot that AR pistol at the short range pistol bays if you "shouldered" it while shooting. I am not sure if this is official and documented procedure now, but this is what that one RO told me.
As I understand the rules, all scoped pistols with barrels over 5.5 inches can be fired at GP range with no requirement to shoulder them. Handguns are prohibted at BP range except for black powder cap and ball revolvers.
 
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Similar question for Mossberg Shockwave. Can a 18+ inch barrel and stock be swapped in to make it a shotgun and then be converted back to a "Firearm" again?
You can purchase a Shockwave with an 18" barrel and it will still be a Shockwave.

However, I do believe that if you put a buttstock on a Shockwave, it is then a shotgun and can therefore never be a "firearm" again. The "loophole" for the Shockwave is based on the fact that it was never a shotgun to start with, so no, you can't make it a shotgun and then return it to the "firearm" configuration - it will then be a SBS if you put a short (<18") barrel on it.

I have a brace on mine, and so far that is still legal. I have seen nothing, yet, in the new brace rules/etc., that address "firearms", only "pistols" and rifles.
 
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You can purchase a Shockwave with an 18" barrel and it will still be a Shockwave.

However, I do believe that if you put a buttstock on a Shockwave, it is then a shotgun and can therefore never be a "firearm" again. The "loophole" for the Shockwave is based on the fact that it was never a shotgun to start with, so no, you can't make it a shotgun and then return it to the "firearm" configuration - it will then be a SBS if you put a short (<18") barrel on it.

I have a brace on mine, and so far that is still legal. I have seen nothing, yet, in the new brace rules/etc., that address "firearms", only "pistols" and rifles.
I was hoping that it might be like a pistol where you can legally convert it to a rifle and then switch it back to a pistol again. Do you have a link to atf info that backs up your belief?
 
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I was hoping that it might be like a pistol where you can legally convert it to a rifle and then switch it back to a pistol again. Do you have a link to atf info that backs up your belief?
That is the line of thought I would chart, since it is not a rifle, that you would be able to switch back and forth at your pleasure. However, I would not be willing to bet on that being correct either.

It would be so much easier on everyone if everything was simply made legal. Then you wouldn't need to consult an attorney to navigate the rules.

-E-
 
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I was hoping that it might be like a pistol where you can legally convert it to a rifle and then switch it back to a pistol again. Do you have a link to atf info that backs up your belief?
No, but look at the articles/etc. on why the Shockwave is a "firearm":

Almost every one says it is not a shotgun because it never had a buttstock on it. Put a buttstock on it and it becomes a shotgun and cannot go back to being a "firearm" because it is a shotgun.

Unlike pistol/rifle conversions, once a shotgun, always a shotgun.

With a pistol it starts out as a pistol and can be converted back and forth.

But if you have an AR that starts out as a rifle, it will always be a rifle.

The rules and regs and laws are not logical, but there you are. They are what they are.

Put a buttstock on a Shockwave and it becomes a shotgun.
 
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That is the line of thought I would chart, since it is not a rifle, that you would be able to switch back and forth at your pleasure. However, I would not be willing to bet on that being correct either.

It would be so much easier on everyone if everything was simply made legal. Then you wouldn't need to consult an attorney to navigate the rules.

-E-
The really funny thing about a Shockwave is that, AFAIK, there is no designation on the gun itself as to whether it is a Shockwave. The only difference is the grip and the short barrel. So no LEO will know it is a Shockwave or a SBS unless he/she has a way to look up the serial number.

That IN NO WAY is a suggestion to try to get around the law or sneak a SBS past the authorities by pretending a Mossberg 590 shotgun is a Shockwave when it legally is not. Don't try it.

I mention this because you may run into a LEO who has never heard of a Shockwave/et. al. and thinks you have a SBS. there is nothing on the gun to show him/her that it is a Shockwave.

Also, as I said, you can put an 18"+ barrel on it and that does not change its legality with regards to federal law. Mossberg started offering them with the 18"+ barrel because there are some states that otherwise see them as a SBS.
 
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The really funny thing about a Shockwave is that, AFAIK, there is no designation on the gun itself as to whether it is a Shockwave. The only difference is the grip and the short barrel. So no LEO will know it is a Shockwave or a SBS unless he/she has a way to look up the serial number.

That IN NO WAY is a suggestion to try to get around the law or sneak a SBS past the authorities by pretending a Mossberg 590 shotgun is a Shockwave when it legally is not. Don't try it.

I mention this because you may run into a LEO who has never heard of a Shockwave/et. al. and thinks you have a SBS. there is nothing on the gun to show him/her that it is a Shockwave.

Also, as I said, you can put an 18"+ barrel on it and that does not change its legality with regards to federal law. Mossberg started offering them with the 18"+ barrel because there are some states that otherwise see them as a SBS.
Good grief. o_O

-E-
 
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I asked the RO this question in regards to braced pistols a couple months ago. His response was that they will consider how you are shooting it. For example, if you have a braced AR pistol you can shoot it at the GP rifle range if you are basically "shouldering the brace". It also meant you could not shoot that AR pistol at the short range pistol bays if you "shouldered" it while shooting. I am not sure if this is official and documented procedure now, but this is what that one RO told me.
The official rules on this have changed several times in a very short period of time. Me and my 9mm federally registered SBR and also registered VZ-61 have run afoul of the RSOs for doing exactly what they asked me to do. I asked, they told me short range pistol in the bays was the only place. (It has a 5.25 inch barrel so just shy of the GP's rules.) Same RSO, whom I had shown the firearm to in photos, and described, came up to me and told me to go to conventional pistol, and when I went to conventional pistol told me to go to short range pistol. I went home at that point.

I have also had my Blackhawk's barrel length questioned if it was longer than 5.5 inches. It is the 7.5 inch barreled one that is almost buntline like.

Worst was when one literally was screaming about me for using an SBR AR with .22 CMG upper at the conventional pistol range in front of my daughter. . (Rules explicitly allow rimfire or did at that time. It is suppressed with the 4.5 inch barrel) He physically grabbed me and yanked on me while I was actively shooting a target. One of the most unsafe things I have seen someone do, ever. The head RSO got involved and he was asked formally to leave me alone.

Some RSOs there are excellent. Some... not so much.

Other things I have learned. Cartridge black powder loads like a BP 45 LC are NOT allowed on the BP range in a pistol. That really was unclear in the rules.
 
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As I understand the rules, all scoped pistols with barrels over 5.5 inches can be fired at GP range with no requirement to shoulder them. Handguns are prohibted at BP range except for black powder cap and ball revolvers.
They allow my front stuffer pistol from 1844 and hesitantly approve of my blunderbuss.
 

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