Kelso: Police: Car prowl suspect held at gunpoint by victim

[The Heretic]

Police: Car prowl suspect held at gunpoint by victim

A Washington man suspected of trying to steal a car from a driveway was held at gunpoint by the owner until police arrived Tuesday morning, according to Kelso police records obtained by KOIN 6 News…

www.koin.com

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[Longwalkhome]

The reality is kate empties out the jails and says you can't protect your property.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Per lawyer's quote in the article, what about property owners who choose to respond with a shovel instead of a firearm?

 

[2gr8dgs]

Kelso gonna Kelso......

 

[Alexx1401]

Blitz said those who choose to respond by defending their property with a firearm need to be prepared for their choices to be scrutinized for days, weeks and months by a prosecutor and grand jury.

This right there. This one ended well. It could EASILY have not ended well. First LEO rolls in and scum goes for good guy? How is LEO to know which one is the good guy?
Scum goes for gun, does good guy shoot him? Then the news is he shot an "unarmed" person. NOT to criticize the owner but, people need to know. Take your gun outside to protect that vehicle and you may well ruin your entire life. So make sure its worth it.

 

[Knobgoblin]

^^^^^
Yep. Shovel . Like I thought.

 

[Alexx1401]

NOT that I recommend this but, when things got bad with scum rioting I dug out Wife's old paint ball marker. Was going to buy some of those pepper ball rounds police use. Damn things are pricey. Instead I bought some "riot balls". They are solid plastic. Playing with them in the garage they looked impressive. I was using a moving box with a washable dog pad in it. Soon found the balls were going through the box and pad and bouncing off the wall
When we moved to were we have 4 legged critters I will need to run off I bought another marker to keep a couple. Have not yet had to shoot one of the 4 legged. If I was to look out and see some scum messing with one of my vehicles? I "may" be tempted to open up on them from the safety of the home. May discourage them?

 

[Knobgoblin]

NOT that I recommend this but, when things got bad with scum rioting I dug out Wife's old paint ball marker. Was going to buy some of those pepper ball rounds police use. Damn things are pricey. Instead I bought some "riot balls". They are solid plastic. Playing with them in the garage they looked impressive. I was using a moving box with a washable dog pad in it. Soon found the balls were going through the box and pad and bouncing off the wall
When we moved to were we have 4 legged critters I will need to run off I bought another marker to keep a couple. Have not yet had to shoot one of the 4 legged. If I was to look out and see some scum messing with one of my vehicles? I "may" be tempted to open up on them from the safety of the home. May discourage them?

Man, idk. Watch the paint and windows with that thing

 

[Knobgoblin]

 

[Alexx1401]

Man, idk. Watch the paint and windows with that thing

Believe me the damage they were doing to the wall after passing through the box and cloth pad I would try NOT to hit my own vehicle. If some scum has his A$$ pointing at me while he is working the window? Not to mention that when they run I can free fire.

 

[Alexx1401]

View attachment 1128764

I even have a backhoe now and a LOT of land. Don't tempt me

 

[Knobgoblin]

I even have a backhoe how and a LOT of land. Don't tempt me

The little coastal yotes are pretty quick with the gut piles and deer carcasses in the woods.
Scattered bones are typically swallowed by the low growing plants in spring.

Uh , I mean, ..what were we talking about?

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Police: Car prowl suspect held at gunpoint by victim

A Washington man suspected of trying to steal a car from a driveway was held at gunpoint by the owner until police arrived Tuesday morning, according to Kelso police records obtained by KOIN 6 News…

www.koin.com

From my understanding that Blitz lawyer person in the article is correct. Can't fire the gun unless imminent deadly threat so can't shoot to defend property. but could use if the perp became a deadly threat (assuming u didn't go out and "prime the pump" trying to get him to draw on you purposely etc).

I also agree about other options being available but a person has to make a judgement call on what is the correct option for the situation so I make absolutely no judgement about choosing the gun option. It seems to me in some situations there could potential be big problems with choosing other options first instead of a firearm in our current environment where crims are ready and willing to shoot.

F.e. Let's say car owner had pepper spray in hand when he confronted thief cuz he didn't want to threaten deadly force. Then perp draws a gun and shoots (Ie don't bring pepper spray to a gun fight).

It seems to me in the current environment gun needs to be out and at low ready (or whatever is appropriate for the situation) and then one can move to pepper spray or whatever if you find it's not a deadly threat. But if gun is not ready (ready doesn't necessarily mean pointing at someone) first, you may end up dead, it seems to me.

"Other options" also includes a lot of things. For example owner could have had gun in hand and yell out the window. Yes he will run away and police probably won't get him but he will likely be released within 30 min to 1 hour anyway so does it make a real-world difference? And is it worth the increased risk for no real benefit (I mean if yelling makes him leave your car alone)? Not criticizing the owner at all and I don't know what the best solution to that situation was because I wasn't there.

Sounds like it worked it well. If perp had responded with force? Who knows how it would have turned out. It's possible it could be an extremely stressful, expensive, and drawn out procedure. Or involve hospital stay, etc. That's why I think it's best to have position of max advantage such as from cover and ask for perps compliance from there (and that does not mean cowering in your house btw, it means being smart for that particularly situation). I'm still learning the best legal way to do things in these types of situations so it's awesome to see articles like this. The more real world examples we have (especially local), the better we can gauge our options I think.

 

[ma96782]

This is NOT LEGAL ADVICE. Each person has to evaluate the situation for themself.



Yes, "generally" it's in bad form to use deadly force in the protection of property. Even when say that it's your property/stuff and the events occur on your home grounds. *But.....just bringing your "means of self-protection" doesn't ALWAYS mean that you're gonna use it either.

So then....
Arming yourself and going outside to confront a perp.....not knowing what the perp has? Well, think of it as being like a Boyscout. Yeah....you come prepared.

Cover down, low ready or keep it holstered? Finger on the trigger or not?

I say......UP TO YOU. Yeah.....that Clint Eastwood meme.

BTW, what's the.....weather, lighting, what time is it, etc..... etc......

And, If the perp comes towards you? Maybe the perp will have a knife or some other weapon? And/or say that the perp has only fists.

WAIT, Wait, wait....
Why is the perp even approaching me?

Perhaps, the perp is actually trying to close the distance. In order to strike and/or disarm me.

Note: I'm almost 65 (I have medical issues) and the perp is, say for example about 20 thru 50s. Hummmm..... So, consider the perp's physical size and shape too. Maybe you suspect that the perp is also high on drugs or alcohol? Etc.... etc..... Yup....it's all factors.

So then.....imagine, what happens if the perp is able to disarm you and now holds your firearm.

Or

Say it this way.....
Playing a stupid game.....could end badly for the perp. Your call.

*Of course......nowadays......race also plays a BIG FACTOR. Though it shouldn't. And, I live close to Portlandia. The Dems rule around here.

Also, be prepared........
There will be plenty of Monday morning quarterbacks to contend with. Lawyers, like in the OP or commentators saying.....

He should have/could have just stayed inside. No one had to end up dead. It's only a property crime. He should have had a concealed holster so the perp wouldn't have known his armed status. Going outside while armed incited the violence. Hey, I can draw and fire in less than a second. So there was no reason to "cover down" on a suspect. Finger position....on or off the trigger? Rules and/or I learned it as...."NEVER".

I guess some of you might get the point. Or maybe, all this typing was for a lost cause? Whatever.

AGAIN.......
This is NOT LEGAL ADVICE. Each person has to evaluate the situation for themself.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Jay Walk]

Homeowner left the car idling in the driveway unoccupied. Who does that in these crazy times?

 

[GrayGoose]

I even have a backhoe now and a LOT of land. Don't tempt me

Or...

 

[Alexx1401]

Homeowner left the car idling in the driveway unoccupied. Who does that in these crazy times?

He used a remote start. Which if its like the kind I see at work it does no good to break into the vehicle as you can 't drive off in it. As for who does this? Every winter here it gets so bad that some places have toyed with laws to make it illegal unless you are using remote start. People start the vehicle and go in the house to make coffee. Scum drive around looking for this. One jumps out and in the running vehicle. Few years back it happened to an LEO in his unmarked car. He of course swore he did not do it. Tried to say he forgot something, ran back in the house for it and scum took off. Sure. In any case it happens all winter here. It also does not help that the scum can do this with impunity. They get caught in the morning they are out for lunch over and over so there is no fear of getting caught.

 

[Alexx1401]

Or...
View attachment 1128884

Have one of those too. Ala that one episode of Fargo

 

[sobo]

Homeowner left the car idling in the driveway unoccupied. Who does that in these crazy times?

Victim-blame much?

 

[The Heretic]

Homeowner left the car idling in the driveway unoccupied. Who does that in these crazy times?

I do - sometimes; if I get ready to go, and then realize I forgot something.

But then it is not an issue when you live in the boonies, off a private road and half of the year your car can't be seen or heard from that road.

I have left stuff laying around out by the road; a chainsaw, lawn mower, etc., when I wanted to take a break or whatever and didn't want to haul/move something when I was coming back out.

It is nice to live in the boonies where there is very little crime.