Washington Farmer Detains Burglars at Gunpoint

[Stomper]

The farmer was facing someone with a weapon.

Yep, and that dummy was probably an eye-blink from getting shot.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Notice he didnt say use lethal force.

Once again, just my opinion...

I do not consider his actions to be a use of lethal force. Just because the firearm has the potential to inflict a lethal wound doesn't equate it's display or discharge as a warning to lethal force. If the guy had displayed that he was armed with a #2 Phillips screwdriver, would that be use of lethal force just because it's capable of creating a lethal wound? If that's the road we're going down, where does it end considering just about any solid object is capable of inflicting a lethal wound if wielded correctly? I know, let's just categorize every object that has mass as lethal.

 

[Stomper]

Once again, just my opinion...

I do not consider his actions to be a use of lethal force. Just because the firearm has the potential to inflict a lethal wound doesn't equate it's display or discharge as a warning to lethal force. If the guy had displayed that he was armed with a #2 Phillips screwdriver, would that be use of lethal force just because it's capable of creating a lethal wound? If that's the road we're going down, where does it end considering just about any solid object is capable of inflicting a lethal wound if wielded correctly? I know, let's just categorize every object that has mass as lethal.

Yeah, like bricks! You can find those between so many sets of ears these days.

 

[Koda]

I do not consider his actions to be a use of lethal force. Just because the firearm has the potential to inflict a lethal wound doesn't equate it's display or discharge as a warning to lethal force. If the guy had displayed that he was armed with a #2 Phillips screwdriver, would that be use of lethal force just because it's capable of creating a lethal wound?

A drawn gun is considered lethal force in all states. So is a screwdriver if its being used to threaten someone.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

A drawn gun is considered lethal force in all states. So is a screwdriver if its being used to threaten someone.

Interesting. I spend time almost daily around people with a "drawn gun" and don't feel threatened or that they're somehow making a show of "lethal force" in any way. Does the fact that a firearm is in someone's hand invariably indicate that they are using lethal force?

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Yeah, like bricks! You can find those between so many sets of ears these days.

Stupidity can be a formidable weapon.

 

[Xaevian]

A drawn gun is considered lethal force in all states. So is a screwdriver if its being used to threaten someone.

No.

 

[Stomper]

No.

A drawn gun is not a use of lethal force, it's actually part of the escalation of the use force that can lead up to the use of deadly/lethal force.

 

[Koda]

No.

How so?
If someones pointing a gun at you threatening to shoot. Or threatening you with an object how is that not using or threatening to use lethal force?

 

[Stomper]

How so?
If someones pointing a gun at you threatening to shoot. Or threatening you with an object how is that not using or threatening to use lethal force?

You just answered your own question…. There's the threat of, and the actual use of…

That's what kept the commies (mostly) at bay during the (not so) Cold War.

 

[Koda]

You just answered your own question…. There's the threat of, and the actual use of…

Except the sheriff i quoted didnt say when someone is threatening you.

 

[Xaevian]

How so?
If someones pointing a gun at you threatening to shoot. Or threatening you with an object how is that not using or threatening to use lethal force?

In many ways. You specifically stated:

A drawn gun is considered lethal force in all states.

This is not true. Just in Montana, this is specifically defined.
Openly Carrying. Weapon - Display

Additionally, your statement is overly broad.How would anyone hunt using your statement? Then, you changed the context with your "How so?" question.

Also, there is a world of difference between "use" and anything else, to which every individual state may define differently. @Stomper already touched on that.

 

[Koda]

In many ways. You specifically stated:

This is not true. Just in Montana, this is specifically defined.
Openly Carrying. Weapon - Display

Additionally, your statement is overly broad.How would anyone hunt using your statement? Then, you changed the context with your "How so?" question.

Also, there is a world of difference between "use" and anything else, to which every individual state may define differently. @Stomper already touched on that.

My question from the beginning was about when ones life isnt being threatened.
Everybody else keeps changing the context.

 

[Koda]

Is protecting your property a life threatening situation?

This is my only question.

The sheriff was saying people could hold others at gunpoint till he arrived. Said nothing about being threatened.

Post #4 for full context.

 

[Xaevian]

My question from the beginning was about when ones life isnt being threatened.
Everybody else keeps changing the context.

No, just you. The sheriff gave the citation in the article. If you need me to hold your hand, here is the statutory link to get you started:
Use of Force-When Lawful

As in most states, there are several related laws and case law that fleshes that out. WA is an open carry state. WA has a fairly generous stand your ground protection. WA uses a reasonable standard and minimal force necessary standard, up to deadly force (that is what lethal force is referred to in WA).

This didn't happen in OR, it happened in WA. You ask the question, but refuse to accept the answer. What the farmer did was perfectly legal.

 

[Koda]

You ask the question, but refuse to accept the answer. What the farmer did was perfectly legal.

I know what the farmer did was legal. I wasnt asking about that. I was referring to a different statement the sheriff was quoted saying.

 

[Stomper]

In many ways. You specifically stated:

This is not true. Just in Montana, this is specifically defined.
Openly Carrying. Weapon - Display

Additionally, your statement is overly broad.How would anyone hunt using your statement? Then, you changed the context with your "How so?" question.

Also, there is a world of difference between "use" and anything else, to which every individual state may define differently. @Stomper already touched on that.

That's right, I touched it!

 

[Xaevian]

I know what the farmer did was legal. I wasnt asking about that. I was referring to a different statement the sheriff was quoted saying.

Grant County Sheriff's Office spokesman Kyle Foreman told Fox News Digital that Washington state law allows people to "use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person" whenever "reasonably used by a person to detain someone who enters or remains unlawfully in a building or on real property lawfully in the possession of such person, so long as such detention is reasonable in duration and manner to investigate the reason for the detained person's presence on the premises, and so long as the premises in question did not reasonably appear to be intended to be open to members of the public."

Notice he didnt say use lethal force.

Above is the gist of the meandering discussion.

The sheriff rep stated one of the legal citations. See my link earlier for the direct RCW. Force in WA is escalating, with a minimal force as needed (up to deadly force), using a reasonableness standard. Holding at gunpoint is usually within those constraints in that context.

 

[Xaevian]

This is my only question.

The sheriff was saying people could hold others at gunpoint till he arrived. Said nothing about being threatened.

Post #4 for full context.

We are tripping over the posts so I missed this one. He didn't say anything about being threatened, because threat isn't necessary to detain a trespasser (in simple terms). It is irrelevant, at least in WA.

 

[Koda]

Let me try this from a different angle.
Lets say you see someone breaking into your car. You go out there and confront them. They are not armed or threatening you, but it looks like they are going to run. Can you hold them at gunpoint?