"Is illegal being illegal?"

[Father of four]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aa4_1272348742

If Hoobert can speak it, shouldn't an illegal immigrant with an Oregon Drivers License be able to? At least to be able to read the road signs?

 

[Ranb]

It's no different than a cop asking you or I for ID. We comply because we are attempting to be law abiding..

Except for people here on alien visas and those with alien cards, as far as I know, there are no laws that require any resident to carry any kind of government identification just because they are outside of their house.

There is a big difference between identifying myself and showing an ID card. Of course if I want to drive on public roads, fly on commercial aircraft or obtain government services, then I need to show a proper ID card. But showing an ID card just for minding my own business is not required in the USA.

Ranb

 

[Ranb]

You been hiding in a cave or something?

And people wonder why some of us are certain voters aren't informed!!!!!!!

Jamie6.5,

So are you going to show us some evidence to back up your claims? Or are you just going to settle for insulting those who do not take you on your word. Why settle for something you can not prove instead of providing a link to what you say everyone has been talking about for years?

You make up your mind if it was a law or an executive order yet?

Ranb

 

[raftman]

Except for people here on alien visas and those with alien cards, as far as I know, there are no laws that require any resident to carry any kind of government identification just because they are outside of their house.

There is a big difference between identifying myself and showing an ID card. Of course if I want to drive on public roads, fly on commercial aircraft or obtain government services, then I need to show a proper ID card. But showing an ID card just for minding my own business is not required in the USA.

Ranb

Yep. It certainly does seem a bit too reminiscent of, "Ausweis, Bitte." We claim to be behind the idea of small government, and as little government interference as possible, so some choose to rationalize going against these ideals by calling it, "letting law enforcement do its job" or, "taking the handcuffs off of law enforcement." and so on. We have to come up with excuses like "If you have nothing to hide, then you should have no problem being checked out." That kind of rationalization can make all kinds of bad things happen.

Should something be done about illegal immigration? Absolutely. But there's a better answer to the question.

 

[Atroxus]

Should something be done about illegal immigration? Absolutely. But there's a better answer to the question.

Okay, well how about sharing it then?

 

[phathom]

What part of ILLEGAL immigrant, doesn't everyone understand? They're not going through the same stuff that everyone else from other countries do to get into this or any other country. They aren't doing the paperwork, learning the language, learning laws of that country, they aren't doing any of the stuff that is required. They are racing across the borders, telling our country they don't give a damn about our laws by doing so, and then leeching off whatever services and resources they can without contributing a damn thing here such as taxes.

They need to be kept out and I really think this is what should happen federally. I think it's a big joke that if they get arrested for something, we make them do their time here sapping more of our resources and then deport them. If they aren't supposed to be here, get them the **** OUT!

If they want to be part of this country, they need to be play by the same rules that everyone else in non-neighboring countries have to.

If we didn't have all these illegal immigrants working here, not paying income taxes and sending their earnings back to mexico instead of spending it here in our country, do you have any idea how our economy would be? It would be a lot better than it is right now, that's for sure.

 

[Father of four]

I'd like to say it again...

I would love it if the Representatives of each State would ask the People (Citizens) of their state what the People (Citizens) thought should be done about illegal immigration. And then work it out in the House and Senate to make a Illegal Immigration bill for the whole country to vote on.

Something needs to be done now. No more waiting around until another million crosses over. What Arizona is doing is a step in the right direction in my eyes.

If you have read many of my posts you will understand my thoughts on out of control government in general. But we need the government to help stop this HUGE problem with illegal immigration and we need it now. Some reasonable laws need to be enforced.

Arizona said they have an estimated 500,000 illegal immigrants in their state alone! Those are the ones who stay and not move deeper into Our Home Land. They are ruining this country and I do not think they care.

Doing nothing but talking about doing something is still doing nothing! Something need to be done now. And if I have to be asked to show my ID 10 times a day to help get ride of MILLIONS of illegal immigrants, I'll be happy to do it!

 

[longcolt]

I hope other states have the courage to do the same thing that AZ did. That will make it a lot more difficult for Obama and Co to use spin to prevent them from enforcing the laws and deporting Illegal criminals.

The Federal government is not enforcing the law and is only concerned with picking up and nice big fat chunk of ignorant voters that want free cookies.

My understanding is that the police have to have a ligit reason to stop anyone in AZ but can and will ask for papers if they think the person may be an illegal.

 

[Father of four]

If interested, take a look at what some fellow American Citizens think about this illegal immigration problem.

I believe the majority of American Citizens really want something done. Trying to fix our crashing economy without dealing with this issue is a no win situation.

http://world-news.newsvine.com/_news/2010/04/27/4211599-mexico-warns-citizens-in-ariz#comments

 

[raftman]

Okay, well how about sharing it then?

Well, for starters, making sure the things that illegal aliens come here for, are no longer available to said illegals. The Arizona approach doesn't really get at the cause, it's just an ineffective way to treat the symptoms, and will likely have a number of side effects.

There are reasons they come illegal aliens come here. Employment is available to them, as are public schools, and various services paid for by tax dollars. If we simply outright denied them access to these things, they'd stop coming, and start leaving. It may even create incentive for them to do it the right and legal way.

 

[Father of four]

The people are speaking. Will the Untied States Government listen to the Citizens of Arizona, the State Government employees of Arizona and try to help fix this HUGE problem? Or will they boycott Arizona themselves?

http://world-news.newsvine.com/_news/2010/04/27/4213190-baseball-caught-in-ariz-boycott#commen

 

[Deavis]

I get the big brother fear factor thing going on here...

but seriously...

I just dont see how a cop inquiring further when meeting a person who has some real NON citizen traits about their immigration status is somehow WRONG? I was under the mistaken impression that we actually paid police to enforce the law instead of hug and release.

As far as neighboring states getting victimized by the flood of illegals going to those places.... perhaps you will see sweeping immigration reform. Good for Az! Bring some attention for an actual solution!

On a side note.... does anybody want to sneak into another country with me, commit some crimes, and tell the police we dont have to ID ourselves?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Except for people here on alien visas and those with alien cards, as far as I know, there are no laws that require any resident to carry any kind of government identification just because they are outside of their house.

There is a big difference between identifying myself and showing an ID card. Of course if I want to drive on public roads, fly on commercial aircraft or obtain government services, then I need to show a proper ID card. But showing an ID card just for minding my own business is not required in the USA.

Ranb

State laws differ.. some states require ID at all times when on the street

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Yep. It certainly does seem a bit too reminiscent of, "Ausweis, Bitte." We claim to be behind the idea of small government, and as little government interference as possible, so some choose to rationalize going against these ideals by calling it, "letting law enforcement do its job" or, "taking the handcuffs off of law enforcement." and so on. We have to come up with excuses like "If you have nothing to hide, then you should have no problem being checked out." That kind of rationalization can make all kinds of bad things happen.

Should something be done about illegal immigration? Absolutely. But there's a better answer to the question.

25 US citizens are dying every day at the hands of illegals, many more women are being raped. Something drastic has to be done.. and this law is a step in the right direction, IMO

Please take note of how Mexico deals with illegal immigration..

http://michellemalkin.com/2010/04/28/police-state-how-mexico-treats-illegal-aliens/

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Well, for starters, making sure the things that illegal aliens come here for, are no longer available to said illegals. The Arizona approach doesn't really get at the cause, it's just an ineffective way to treat the symptoms, and will likely have a number of side effects.

There are reasons they come illegal aliens come here. Employment is available to them, as are public schools, and various services paid for by tax dollars. If we simply outright denied them access to these things, they'd stop coming, and start leaving. It may even create incentive for them to do it the right and legal way.

AZ just passed a law that makes matters far harder for "day laborers" to loiter around and pick up cash work.. give it time, AZ is on the right track here

 

[raftman]

I get the big brother fear factor thing going on here...


I just dont see how a cop inquiring further when meeting a person who has some real NON citizen traits about their immigration status is somehow WRONG?

And what is a non-citizen trait exactly? Speaking with an accent? Having a different skin color than most citizens have?

The thing is, rights abuses are already being reported on account of the new law, you have people who can and do present two forms of ID (such as a driver's license and Social Security), still get detained (handcuffs and all) for hours at immigration offices because they can't also produce a birth certificate. Who the heck carries their birth certificate on them when they go out of their house?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

And what is a non-citizen trait exactly? Speaking with an accent? Having a different skin color than most citizens have?

The thing is, rights abuses are already being reported on account of the new law, you have people who can and do present two forms of ID (such as a driver's license and Social Security), still get detained (handcuffs and all) for hours at immigration offices because they can't also produce a birth certificate. Who the heck carries their birth certificate on them when they go out of their house?

You're more worried about some alleged "abuses" than you are about the 9,000 + killings of US citizens, tens of thousands of rapes, robberies, drug trafficking committed every year by illegal aliens?

We are being invaded by paramilitary and gangland scumbags.. we are at war

 

[Deavis]

And what is a non-citizen trait exactly? Speaking with an accent? Having a different skin color than most citizens have?

The thing is, rights abuses are already being reported on account of the new law, you have people who can and do present two forms of ID (such as a driver's license and Social Security), still get detained (handcuffs and all) for hours at immigration offices because they can't also produce a birth certificate. Who the heck carries their birth certificate on them when they go out of their house?

Raftman - you are lost.......

Here is a trait.... You live here for five years and speak no English, Get arrested for (pick one: DUII/drugs/rape of underage girl) and have forged social security card and that # comes back to some dead US Citizen.. and arrests in multiple jurisdictions and under different names! I really think you have NO FREAKING CLUE what it is really like in our society and the toll of illegal immigration....

 

[raftman]

Raftman - you are lost.......

Here is a trait.... You live here for five years and speak no English, Get arrested for (pick one: DUII/drugs/rape of underage girl) and have forged social security card and that # comes back to some dead US Citizen.. and arrests in multiple jurisdictions and under different names! I really think you have NO FREAKING CLUE what it is really like in our society and the toll of illegal immigration....

Personal insults aside, you are suggesting those are the illegal "traits" based upon which the Arizona law will allow police to search/detain people as suspected illegal immigrants?

Are you trying to suggest that the police will know that a person has lived in the USA for 5 years and doesn't speak English just by seeing that person driving in a car or walking down the street? Can a cop tell just by looking at you that you have a stolen Social Security number that goes back to a dead US citizen? Are the policemen and women in AZ clairvoyant? Must be nice, there must not be a single unsolved crime in the entire state. Crime rates must be pretty low, too. And if the individual in question "raped an underaged girl" the police will use that as a hint that the person is an illegal immigrant? Really?

I never said I didn't think they weren't a problem, we just need a solution that doesn't open the door to rights abuses against those who DO have a right to here, such as citizens and legal residents.

 

[Deavis]

I am talking about further inquiry from legitimate stops/investigations ... e.g. Drunk and disorderly in public.... suspect hands cop a forged bogus id of any kind and doesnt speak English.... thats a clue..... unlike now.... cops in AZ could ACTUALLY do something about it...... but with all this hand wringing by the liberals in this country we should really just give in.... work real hard and pay lots of taxes these people need all kinds of services and you better pay for it instead of doing something about it..... the AZ thing is SOMETHING.... which is better than NOTHING.