"Is illegal being illegal?"

[pokerace]

Do this poll!!!

 

[Ranb]

State laws differ.. some states require ID at all times when on the street

I guess I have not looked hard enough then. Got a link to any such law? Thanks.

Ranb

 

[Doubletap]

Associated Press
Wed Apr 28, 8:30 am ET

AUSTIN, Texas – A Texas lawmaker says she plans to push for a law similar to Arizona's get-tough immigration measure.

San Antonio Express-News and Houston Chronicle report Wednesday that Republican Rep. Debbie Riddle of Tomball says she will introduce the measure in the January legislative session.

The new Arizona law would require local and state law enforcement to question people about their immigration status — and make it a crime for immigrants to lack registration documents.

Riddle says if the federal government did its job "Arizona wouldn't have to take this action, and neither would Texas."

Democrats say such legislation is misguided and predict it will hurt the GOP politically.

*************************************************************

Looks like all it took was one state doing the right thing..to get the ball rolling...

 

[Chee-to]

You can thank Arizona Governor Jan Brewer here.............


<broken link removed>

 

[deen_ad]

Do this poll!!!

are you referring to????

 

[Doubletap]

You can thank Arizona Governor Jan Brewer here.............


<broken link removed>

I was # 22,924.. And happy to be on it...

 

[Jamie6.5]

Good article here: http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2010/04/27/south-of-the-border/
Excerpt:

And that goes for the Americans, too, who are finding that the violence is spilling over the US-Mexican border. As a 2009 news report put it: ( <broken link removed> )

"Homes are being invaded by gunmen, people raped and tortured, and bodies dumped in the Arizona desert as violence from the Mexican drug wars spills into the American Southwest. Illegal immigration and drug smuggling have always been issues in this border state, but warring Mexican cartels are carrying violence to levels that have shocked law enforcement and government officials.

Closing excerpt:

That the US State Department hasn’t issued a travel advisory warning Americans against the growing lawlessness that threatens visitors to Mexico is just another indication of government failure. Our government is so busy carrying out tasks it has no constitutional authority to involve itself in that it has no time, energy, or interest in doing what it is supposed to be doing, in this case protecting the physical safety of American citizens.

Take 5 minutes and give it a read. Then maybe it will become clear why Arizona was forced to implement legal means to do what the feds refuse to.

 

[Doubletap]

April 28, 1:24 PMTucson Gun Rights Examiner Chris Woodard:

Having read the bill, with specific verbiage prohibiting ‘Profiling’, it’s appears to be pretty clear. But since all the furor and demonstrations against this new law, it’s is certainly understandable why many are so upset.

For the average law abiding citizen, and law enforcement, nothing has changed. Just one example, in the past, when an individual was stopped for a traffic violation, the officer asks for a drivers license, registration, and proof of insurance. If during this stop, he begins to suspect you are here illegally, and you are, then you are detained and ultimately turned over to ICE.

Here is what has changed. In the past, ICE does one of three things:

Refuse the legal transfer.

Accept the transfer, give the illegal a verbal slap on the wrist and let him go. (San Francisco?)

Or occasionally just deport him, quite often to have him once again return illegally.

With this new law, ICE is bypassed entirely. If convicted, the illegal goes to jail. And in Arizona, he could find himself working for Sheriff Joe’s tent city. Not the kind work he envisioned. In effect, Arizona has taken her illegal problems out of the Federal Government’s hands since they seem incapable of doing either very little or nothing. This bypassing of federal authority is overwhelmingly supported by a vast majority of the citizens of Arizona.

As just about anyone who has traveled or worked overseas knows, you keep your identification with you at all times. Passport, Visa (usually stamped in the passport) and if working, your work permit, and here we have the green card. Incidentally, that is the law here too, but largely overlooked. Ironically, just about every foreigner who is in this country legally, regardless of race or nationality keeps his papers with him. But of course, an illegal is unable to do so.

While the left are up in arms over this, now Texas is drafting a bill mirroring Arizona’s.

Mr. Obama: Can you hear us now?

 

[Atroxus]

April 28, 1:24 PMTucson Gun Rights Examiner Chris Woodard:

Having read the bill, with specific verbiage prohibiting ‘Profiling’, it’s appears to be pretty clear. But since all the furor and demonstrations against this new law, it’s is certainly understandable why many are so upset.

For the average law abiding citizen, and law enforcement, nothing has changed. Just one example, in the past, when an individual was stopped for a traffic violation, the officer asks for a drivers license, registration, and proof of insurance. If during this stop, he begins to suspect you are here illegally, and you are, then you are detained and ultimately turned over to ICE.

Here is what has changed. In the past, ICE does one of three things:

Refuse the legal transfer.

Accept the transfer, give the illegal a verbal slap on the wrist and let him go. (San Francisco?)

Or occasionally just deport him, quite often to have him once again return illegally.

With this new law, ICE is bypassed entirely. If convicted, the illegal goes to jail. And in Arizona, he could find himself working for Sheriff Joe’s tent city. Not the kind work he envisioned. In effect, Arizona has taken her illegal problems out of the Federal Government’s hands since they seem incapable of doing either very little or nothing. This bypassing of federal authority is overwhelmingly supported by a vast majority of the citizens of Arizona.

As just about anyone who has traveled or worked overseas knows, you keep your identification with you at all times. Passport, Visa (usually stamped in the passport) and if working, your work permit, and here we have the green card. Incidentally, that is the law here too, but largely overlooked. Ironically, just about every foreigner who is in this country legally, regardless of race or nationality keeps his papers with him. But of course, an illegal is unable to do so.

While the left are up in arms over this, now Texas is drafting a bill mirroring Arizona’s.

Mr. Obama: Can you hear us now?

Hmm, only flaw I see in that is that instead of sucking up tax dollars by using services like EMS, Hospitals, schools and such the illegals there will be sucking up tax dollars in the form of housing to put them in jail instead. I still think it's a damn sight better than anything put forth by the federal government though.(ie better than nothing)

 

[MikeE]

Hmm, only flaw I see in that is that instead of sucking up tax dollars by using services like EMS, Hospitals, schools and such the illegals there will be sucking up tax dollars in the form of housing to put them in jail instead. I still think it's a damn sight better than anything put forth by the federal government though.(ie better than nothing)

Not to mention growing your breakfast, lunch, and dinner for you. Oh well, I'm sure you patriots are really up for the challenge of remembering how to use a shovel.

 

[Father of four]

Yes mike we are!

 

[Father of four]

I just found something interesting. <broken link removed>

"Responses from these states also raise a red flag because of their higher shares of residents who are Latinos. The Census Bureau has said one of its main concerns is whether tensions over immigration will discourage Latinos, and particularly illegal immigrants, from participating in the government count. That issue returned to the forefront after Arizona passed a tough immigration enforcement bill.

Latino residents represent a predominant share of the population growth in New York, California, Texas, Arizona and Florida, making up more than 50 percent of total growth since 2000. As a result, those states could face big losses if there isn't full cooperation when the Census Bureau on Saturday begins knocking on the doors of those who did not respond by mail.

Of the five states on the cusp, the biggest potential losers are California and New York, which could have a net loss of one and two House seats, respectively. Texas may end up gaining just three House seats instead of four.

Arturo Vargas, executive director of the National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials, said he was concerned about some skittish Latinos who may refuse to answer their doors, particularly given Arizona's new immigration law."

 

[raftman]

April 28, 1:24 PMTucson Gun Rights Examiner Chris Woodard:

Having read the bill, with specific verbiage prohibiting &#8216;Profiling', it's appears to be pretty clear. But since all the furor and demonstrations against this new law, it's is certainly understandable why many are so upset.

For the average law abiding citizen, and law enforcement, nothing has changed. Just one example, in the past, when an individual was stopped for a traffic violation, the officer asks for a drivers license, registration, and proof of insurance. If during this stop, he begins to suspect you are here illegally, and you are, then you are detained and ultimately turned over to ICE.
...

Maybe I am not reading it carefully enough, but where is there any clear rule against profiling?

Here it is, right off the AZ legislature's website:

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/summary/s.1070pshs.doc.htm

What's more, nowhere does it say that the LEO needs to have any other reason to stop an individual, nowhere does it say it needs to be something like a traffic violation during which an officer may suspect the individual is an illegal; it says basically any contact at all is sufficient grounds for checking up on someone.

 

[Deavis]

I am done with this thread....

America has been invaded by an alien force and those who live here are so PC and cant/dont see the damage done they deserve to get what they got coming, which will be sooo much worse than what is here now.

So.... dont look to the military or LE to fix it... just swear you alegiance now to ATZLAN....

No looking back with would've could've should've BS. You have it coming... enjoy it.

Enjoy that.

 

[raftman]

Too funny. Laughable really.

Even though I never once denied illegal immigration was a problem, in fact I've stated in this very thread that something needs to be done about it, somehow people interpret that as as a denial of a problem and as surrender. My whole point is that something needs to be done and urgently, but it shouldn't be done at the expense of the rights of those that DO belong in the country, specifically citizens and legal residents. Why is that so objectionable? Do people want citizens and legal residents to have their rights violated? Is the notion of finding a solution that doesn't include undesirable precedents such a horrible idea?

 

[Deavis]

I swear really I am done with this...

So if you belong here... and some dont... why is it a big issue for you to go ahead and show a document that says so......

SINCE WE HAVE BEEN INVADED AND ALL?

how sad... the victims dont want to show the victim card to save the offenders... Stockholm Syndrome anyone???

Rights violated??????????????????????????????????????????

really???????????????... I guess I would need some real world examples... because all I see with this is a invaisive group that hides behind the rules that we made for our nation, and our citizens...... citizens who are too cowardly to stand up and do something to help actually strengthen our nation....

Denial kills you twice....... obviously you have no scope of the issue.......

keep paying lots of taxes.... LOTS of them...

 

[raftman]

Why is it a big issue to show documents? Would you be ok with someone listening on your phone conversations and reading your mail? If you're not hiding anything, why is that such a big issue? If you have nothing to hide, why is it such a big issue to have government agencies searching your house every now and then?

You're a 100&#37; law abiding citizen, why give someone the ability to treat you like you're not?

Real world examples? Way to disregard ones already provided in this very thread. Already just a couple of days into it, you've got a guy who was actually able to provide TWO forms of valid, acceptable ID in accordance with the AZ law, and was still cuffed and detained, and was held for hours because he was unable to also provide a birth certificate. His wife had to rush over with his birth certificate, and even after that, it was hours before they let him go.

What's this nonsense about the scope of the issue? It's a complete non-sequitur argument. I haven't once denied the seriousness of the problem, I only pointed out the flaws and inadequacies of the proposed solution. That's like saying because I recommend exercise rather than diet pills to treat obesity, and I am saying obesity doesn't exist, or isn't a problem.

 

[LC450]

"Laws are made for men of ordinary understanding and should, therefore, be construed by the ordinary rules of common sense. Their meaning is not to be sought for in metaphysical subtleties which may make anything mean everything or nothing at pleasure." --Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 1823

 

[Blitzkrieg]

What is done to the illegals after they do some time at labor? Is AZ doing the right thing and dumping them south of their border, or just turning them over to ICE and whatever happens, happens?

 

[raftman]

What is done to the illegals after they do some time at labor? Is AZ doing the right thing and dumping them south of their border, or just turning them over to ICE and whatever happens, happens?

Yeah, that's one of the other tricky things, it never says what is done with illegals after they've done their time. It only says after imprisonment and/or after a fine is imposed, they should be transferred to ICE, and that furthermore law enforcement agencies have the ability to transfer the illegals into any other form of federal custody elsewhere outside of the jurisdiction of the LE agency that arrested and or imprisoned the illegal immigrant. What exactly federal custody means, and what happens after that, isn't spelled out. I suppose whatever happens will happen on account of federal law and isn't something AZ legislature has any jurisdiction over. Maybe the whole thing will just become a slow and expensive revolving door.

For the record, I am completely for deportation of illegal immigrants after they've been imprisoned or fined, I just don't like the idea of police now being obligated to go on fishing expeditions at the expense of citizens and legal residents.