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"Is illegal being illegal?"

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by LC450, Apr 23, 2010.

  1. LC450

    LC450 The Peoples Republic of WA State Member

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    President Barack Obama called an Arizona immigration bill "misguided" Friday and said it could violate people's civil rights, intensifying pressure on the state's Republican governor to veto the nation's toughest legislation against illegal immigration.
    Obama said he's instructed the Justice Department to examine the Arizona bill to see if it's legal, and said the federal government must enact immigration reform at the national level — or leave the door open to "irresponsibility by others."
    "That includes, for example, the recent efforts in Arizona, which threaten to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans, as well as the trust between police and their communities that is so crucial to keeping us safe," Obama said.
    Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer, who faces a tough election battle and growing anger in the state over illegal immigrants, scheduled an afternoon news conference Friday to announce her decision.
    The sweeping measure would make it a crime under state law to be in the country illegally. It would also require local police officers to question people about their immigration status if there is reason to suspect they are in the country illegally.
    Brewer is under intense pressure from anti-illegal immigration groups and lawmakers in her own party to sign the bill, but has given no indication what she will do.
    The bill's Republican sponsor, state Rep. Russell Pearce of Mesa, said Obama and other critics of the bill were "against law enforcement, our citizens and the rule of law."
    Pearce said the legislation would remove "political handcuffs" from police and help drive illegal immigrants from the state.
    "Illegal is illegal," said Pearce, a driving force on the issue in Arizona. "We'll have less crime. We'll have lower taxes. We'll have safer neighborhoods. We'll have shorter lines in the emergency rooms. We'll have smaller classrooms."
    Hundreds of Hispanics protested the legislation at the State Capitol complex on Thursday.
    The bill would take effect 90 days after the current legislative session ends if it becomes law.

    Brewer faces a contested Aug. 24 Republican primary election, and one of her opponents, State Treasurer Dean Martin, has called on her to sign the legislation.

    Also, the March 27 shooting death of rancher Bob Krentz on his property in southeastern Arizona has brought illegal immigration and border security into greater focus in the state. Authorities believe Krentz was killed by an illegal border crosser.

    Since the shooting, Brewer and other officeholders and candidates have toured the state's border with Mexico. On Thursday, she ordered a reallocation of state National Guard and law enforcement resources and called on the federal government to deploy National Guard troops.

    Arizona has previously passed a variety of get-tough measures dealing with illegal immigration.
    Brewer's predecessor, Janet Napolitano, a Democrat who is now President Barack Obama's Homeland Security secretary, vetoed proposals similar to the bill just approved by the Legislature.

    But she signed a 2007 law that imposes sanctions against employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants. Other state laws make human smuggling a state crime and restrict illegal immigrants' eligibility for public services
    The Mexican-American Legal Defense and Education Fund said the bill before Brewer is unconstitutional because regulation of immigration is a federal responsibility.

    Others urging Brewer to veto the bill include Catholic bishops, New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, a Democrat, and Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard, the Democratic Party's presumptive nominee for governor. Mexico's embassy also has voiced concerns about racial profiling.

    A Phoenix Law Enforcement Association representative acknowledged that racial profiling can occur but said fears associated with the bill are unfounded.

    "We're not targeting any particular group," said Levi Bolton, a retired police detective. "Cops are not here to do these things to you."
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36735281/ns/politics/
     
  2. ZachS

    ZachS Eugene/PDX Active Member

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    Do you really think the police should have the legal authority to stop a person simply because they think the person might be an illegal immigrant?


    This is an extraordinary - and possibly unconstitutional - expansion of police powers. Something needs to be done about illegal immigration, but this ain't it.
     
  3. Ranb

    Ranb Belfair, WA Active Member

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    Part of the law says,

    It also requires those who are required by the Smith Act to carry their alien cards or risk breaking the law if caught without them. But I think this does not apply strictly to individuals.

    I do not like the law either, but this is what happens when the federal government neglects to take any reasonable action to fix the problem.

    Ranb
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2010
  4. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Ya, well the same is said about obummercare and it's law, whatcha gonna do..:confused:
     
  5. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    There, fixed it for you. :)
     
  6. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    We all know there is a real Huge problem with illegal immigrants in this country. I think what Arizona is try to do should be commended. It has been pushed under the table for far too long. Law abiding citizens shouldn't mind being asked to show proof of citizenship... a drivers license or ID. If they are here illegally they should be made to go back from where they came. That may be tough and I will get flack but hey. If you are here illegally, you shouldn't be able to stay. I know there are gonna be some hard calls but they need to be made.
     
  7. Ravenous

    Ravenous West Linn, OR Member

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    Yet another good reason to move to Arizona! Seriously though, eventually you have to stop pussy footing around and enforce the laws that already exist. People who are legal have nothing to fear.
     
  8. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    And there's the rub!! Well said.

    If DC wasn't so worried about a political advantage on election day they would take reasonable action.
    In one respect though, this plays into the left's hands. If they make enough noise about it, they will garner more (illicit)votes in Nov. Maybe enough to stay in office, without actually having to put amnesty for illegals in place.

    Then they'll save that one for the next election in 2012.
    Sometimes timing is everything.
     
  9. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Here is a little more information about Arizona's immigration problems.

    Officer.com Home > Top News Stories

    Ariz. Governor to Act on Immigration Bill

    Posted: Friday, April 23, 2010
    Updated: April 23rd, 2010 10:08 AM EDT

    By PAUL DAVENPORT and JONATHAN J. COOPER
    Associated Press Writers

    PHOENIX --

    Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer is nearing a deadline to act on the nation's toughest state legislation against illegal immigration.

    A Saturday deadline was set when the legislation landed on her desk Monday. She can sign, veto or allow the bill to become law without her signature.

    The sweeping measure gives police new duties to question people about their immigration status in some circumstances, targets hiring of illegal immigrants and creates a state crime for them to not have papers to be in the country illegally.

    Arizona has an estimated 460,000 illegal immigrants and is the nation's busiest border crossing point.


    WOW!!!! 460,000 Illegal Immigrants?
     
  10. Ranb

    Ranb Belfair, WA Active Member

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    Cougfan2,

    I do not know where you are from, but in the USA it takes way more than amnesty, permanent residency or a green card to legally vote in any American election. Think about that the next time you try to be smart. :)

    Ranb
     
  11. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    I don't know where you are from either, but the democratic party has been trying to use immigration reform for years to try to get illegal immigrants US citizenship via amnesty and other methods because many of them are dependent on social services and entitlements which the Democratic party, and yes some Republicans too, have passed into law. A whole new voting class largely dependent on government provided social services will create a permanent democratic voting block for years to come and the democrats know this.

    Think about that the next time you try to be smart. :)
     
  12. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Be careful with that one Ranb.
    Oregon's illustrious left wing Governor decided some time ago to give any Hispanic that had a metricular (sp?) card a driver's license and register them to vote.
    I've watched it happen at the DMV!
     
  13. Doubletap

    Doubletap Newberg Well-Known Member

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    Yes.. I absolutely believe the Police should be allowed to enforce the law.. And it's about time somebody did.. Apparently..there's something about the word "illegal" that some people just don't have the intellect to grasp...
     
  14. ZachS

    ZachS Eugene/PDX Active Member

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    There's something about "probable cause" and "the right of the people to be secure...against unreasonable searches" that some other people don't have the intellect to grasp.
     
  15. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure that by "people", the founders meant "citizen(s)."

    Not a citizen? Not fully protected.
    That is the problem I have with the prisoners at Gitmo, being allowed rights to due process, miranda etc. They should be considered POWs, and subject to military tribunal.

    I doubt that illegal aliens in this country get treated worse than they would in Mexico in the hands of the Federales. And I seriously doubt the Federales' actions are subject to probable cause.
     
  16. ZachS

    ZachS Eugene/PDX Active Member

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    And that's the exact problem: the police won't know if someone's a citizen or not until after they're stopped. It pretty much gives the police a free pass to demand "papers" from at least anybody of a certain ethnic appearance - and, really, no reason the police couldn't argue they thought you or I was an illegal immigrant from Canada. There's just way too much potential for abuse here, and I think it's a terrible solution to this problem.


    The detainees at Gitmo don't have those rights, but to the extent they have any rights, military tribunals are the exact kind of due process they get.


    As a rule, aliens in ICE custody are treated far worse than any other category of prisoners in this country - but yeah, I'd rather be in an ICE lockup any day than anywhere near a Federale.
     
  17. Doubletap

    Doubletap Newberg Well-Known Member

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    And I have a hard time seeing asking someone for their ID..as an "unreasonable search".. I guess LEO's better stop asking for drivers licenses when they pull you over..:nuts:

    Like someone else already said..here legally..you got nothing to worry about.. I'd add to that..here illegally? Get your *** back where you belong..
     
  18. Ranb

    Ranb Belfair, WA Active Member

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    My reply was carefully worded, I said legally. It appears you watched the law being broken. Did you report it?

    Ranb
     
  19. Ranb

    Ranb Belfair, WA Active Member

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    I doubt it. If you were a white man with property, then you were a real person. Blacks, indians and women hardly mattered at all back then.

    Ranb
     
  20. ZachS

    ZachS Eugene/PDX Active Member

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    The law is that "people" means all human beings inside US borders - after all, you can't tell if someone isn't a citizen until AFTER they've been stopped i.e. "seized".