I will never buy reloads again

[Koda]

KKG,

Other that having one were there any other legal requirements to producing reloads commercially?

 

[KKG]

KKG,

Other that having one were there any other legal requirements to producing reloads commercially?

Frankly, after finding out the Insurance costs I didn't go any further.

 

[Koda]

But then it must be remembered that the 10mm is a very, very New cartridge compared to the .45ACP or 9mm Luger or .38 S&W Special or even the .45 Colt. And that means the 10mm SAMMI specs are also very New.

Im not certain what that means...?

If I recall even "+p" wasnt specified by SAAMI until very recently, and most every manufacturers been offering +p in all the old established calibers for years.

 

[KKG]

Im not certain what that means...?

If nothing else it means that the equipment used for the testing of the 10mm is much different than what was used to test loads 100+ years ago when the .38 S&W Special was tested the first time. It's like comparing Apples and Oranges. SAMMI specs for the .38 S&W Special are the same today as they were in the beginning and that is Good because we still have Guns around from that time frame. While the first 10mm is probably as strong as one designed today.

 

[Koda]

If nothing else it means that the equipment used for the testing of the 10mm is much different than what was used to test loads 100+ years ago when the .38 S&W Special was tested the first time. It's like comparing Apples and Oranges. SAMMI specs for the .38 S&W Special are the same today as they were in the beginning and that is Good because we still have Guns around from that time frame. While the first 10mm is probably as strong as one designed today.

I guess I dont see the difference if ammo makers are not required to follow SAAMI spec. Boutique makers have been pushing the max on many common loads for years ( not just 10mm).

Just go to any of them and look at their "hunting" , "woods", "heavy" loads for even 9mm....

The point is, whatever SAAMI specs are... They dont 'have to' follow them. And they should be required...

Not certain how this fits in with cracked used cases, or hard primers, etc. Those are simply QC issues.

 

[KKG]

The point is, whatever SAAMI specs are... They dont 'have to' follow them. And they should be required...

The fact is that other Countries do have Standards and many of them are Very strict. The USA doesn't even have a "Proof House" and leaves those Standards up to the Industry. Sometimes this is good and sometimes it isn't. Frankly, in my opinion, there needs to be more control over the (re)manufacturing of Ammunition in this Country. I've seen what I consider Way too many things like this happening. Some time ago I saw a Freedom Arms revolver with the entire top of the Cylinder and Frame blown off. And that is just one Heck of a Strong revolver. ALL of this is the result of poor quality control within the Industry.

 

[Koda]

Sometimes this is good and sometimes it isn't.

I was just thinking about this, not certain yet what to think....

Its better if your one of those unlucky souls whos gun is blown up from new or "commercial" reloads if there are legal requirements for the ammo manufacturers to follow.... You can demand a replacement. Ammo would be safer, and thats good for all of us.

But then ammo would be double expensive and potentially be over regulated... And I dont trust anti-gun agendas getting their hands in that pot.

How often does it happen? ....is the wheel broken, so to speak?

 

[KKG]

Just looking at the number of threads on this one Forum, well, I'd have to say that if the wheel isn't Broken it is certainly Very Badly Bent!!!

 

[Koda]

Just looking at the number of threads on this one Forum, well, I'd have to say that if the wheel isn't Broken it is certainly Very Badly Bent!!!

But thats for reloads, not new...
Yeah, google is full of reloads reviews that are not good.

But... The market fixes that on its own. The "commercial reloaders" arent selling their ammo radically cheaper than new. That alone is their fault for including the cost of new brass in the price when they are getting their used brass for free.

There really isnt a reason to buy commercial reloads.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Back in the day we used to buy a lot of this stuff.. commercial reloads.. saved a few bucks a box. This was back when most cops carried .357/.38 and there was a million tons a brass for them.. good stuff.



They're still in business. Don't know if they export to yurp or not.

 

[Koda]

Back in the day we used to buy a lot of this stuff.. commercial reloads.. saved a few bucks a box. This was back when most cops carried .357/.38 and there was a million tons a brass for them.. good stuff.

View attachment 398305

They're still in business. Don't know if they export to yurp or not.

They sell that stuff here locally at Sportsmans...
Same price as new

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

Up until the 70's-80's a lot of police departments used reloaded ammunition for practice. I bought 500 rounds of it a few years back, .38 spl 158 gn HBWC.

 

[CLT65]

"ALL US-made ammunition coming into Europe has to be subjected, initially, to the proof laws and tests, which is why it costs a deal more here than it does where you live."

Yes, I see. Looks like what we're getting at is that the U.S. and Europe both have regulation but the regulation in Europe is far more. Personally I don't see that as a good thing. Maybe it's just an American way of looking at things but I don't want to pay through the nose for ammo and components like you all do in Europe. Personally I think that being licensed and insured should cover it. Expensive insurance and being legally liable should make them careful, you would think. I guess I'm just not in favor of excessive regulation that makes things prohibitively expensive and restricts what I can buy and when.

I've actually heard of very few guns blown up and people hurt using commercial reloads. I've personally seen none. What I have seen are malfunctions and poor quality. I've heard of a couple of damaged guns that the commercial reloader was quick to replace when contacted. On the other hand I've heard of many damaged and blown up guns by people and their own reloads. Maybe we should have regulations that ban reloading altogether, or a mandatory training class and license to "roll your own"? That would help keep us safe.

EDIT: Sorry, Tac, reading what I wrote sounds more contentious than I intended. I do appreciate the conversation and information about how it's done there as opposed to here. No offense intended at all.

 

[Certaindeaf]

They sell that stuff here locally at Sportsmans...
Same price as new

I wonder if it is new now.
I know they make some very high-end ammo these days.

 

[Seared Saba]

I just checked my 380acp spent brass from my P238. Primers all show noticeably deeper indentations than your photo. I know it's not the 938, but I think you might want to check your gun as well. I would never use any remanufactured ammunitions that are not done by me. I don't even fully trust factory ammo after I realized that they are not perfectly safe either. I have experienced occasional failures with the Winchester primers, but they all went bang on a second strike.

 

[Boboclown]

Wouldn't necessarily use winchester as an example, they have poor QC for ammo.

 

[KKG]

Up until the 70's-80" a lot of police departments used reloaded ammunition for practice.

I know exactly what you are talking about. I used to run one of those machines for the Department I worked for. It turned out 3,500-4,000 rounds an hour. If I remember correctly, it had 11 Stations. There was also a machine that filled the Primer Tubes(CCI) -125 in each. Plus a machine for final inspection and boxing of the finished product. We cleaned cases in a Commercial Grade Cement Mixer. We bought pre-tubed Speer HBWC, also 125 per, and every once in a while one of the tubes would break! The BIG machine had a Plexiglass shield between it and me. Bullseye 2.7grs. from 8lbs containers. The Department even carried Special Insurance which the County required. One of the better jobs in Law Enforcement in the '70-'80s time frame. But the loading was one of those "other Duties as assigned" which I volunteered for. We issued .30 caliber ammo cans(1,500 rounds) to each Officer on the Pistol Team and they could get a second one if they returned the first one. Yes, I was on the Team for a while. Actually any Officer could get a can but had to sign for it and had to return the empties or they got charged for the ammo and it wasn't cheap!

We did purchase from HSM every once in a while and I found the ammo to be Excellent. I'm sure HSM charges a fair amount and if I remember correctly you can sell the brass back to them if you want. I was impressed a few years later when I visited the CCI plant and found they used the same machines we did for Their regular ammunition.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

I will bet more houses are blown up by malfunctioning hot water heaters than guns blown up with faulty reloads on the average. Although this is apples and oranges comparison it still shows a lot of other things in life are dangerous as well. And 37,000 people were killed in automobiles in 2016.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I know exactly what you are talking about. I used to run one of those machines for the Department I worked for. It turned out 3,500-4,000 rounds an hour. If I remember correctly, it had 11 Stations. There was also a machine that filled the Primer Tubes(CCI) -125 in each. Plus a machine for final inspection and boxing of the finished product. We cleaned cases in a Commercial Grade Cement Mixer. We bought pre-tubed Speer HBWC, also 125 per, and every once in a while one of the tubes would break! The BIG machine had a Plexiglass shield between it and me. Bullseye 2.7grs. from 8lbs containers. The Department even carried Special Insurance which the County required. One of the better jobs in Law Enforcement in the '70-'80s time frame. But the loading was one of those "other Duties as assigned" which I volunteered for. We issued .30 caliber ammo cans(1,500 rounds) to each Officer on the Pistol Team and they could get a second one if they returned the first one. Yes, I was on the Team for a while. Actually any Officer could get a can but had to sign for it and had to return the empties or they got charged for the ammo and it wasn't cheap!

We did purchase from HSM every once in a while and I found the ammo to be Excellent. I'm sure HSM charges a fair amount and if I remember correctly you can sell the brass back to them if you want. I was impressed a few years later when I visited the CCI plant and found they used the same machines we did for Their regular ammunition.

Here's a neat older video of the Los Angeles SD.. I think they cast their own outa iron six-cavity gang molds too, four at a time 'cause they'd get hot. lol

 

[KKG]

Here's a neat older video of the Los Angeles SD.. I think they cast their own outa iron six-cavity gang molds too, four at a time 'cause they'd get hot. lol

Tonto never looked so good! Check out Tonto in Spanish and you'll learn why The Lone Ranger had to a "adjusted" South of the Border.
Thanks for the video.