I see the reforms promised vis-a-vis locked threads have not been enforced

[Norm0931]

A firearm owning Liberal Democrat is the reason we still have fairly lenient gun laws in Oregon compared to other fully Democrat run states.

 

[DireWolf]

Thank you for proving my point.

A firearm owning Liberal Democrat is the reason we still have fairly lenient gun laws in Oregon compared to other fully Democrat run states.

And it makes sense to me to find common ground on this issue here - regardless of who you vote for, what you think about environmental issues, or whatever.

That speaks to the supposed "Mission Statement" of this site - not what actually goes on in many of the subgroups now. Maintaining a hyper-aggressive forum is not sustainable. It seems to me that now that some of that is being reeled in, those who were on the fringe and used to lax rules have confused the desire to be a bit more reasonable with censorship, and left. Fine by me.

 

[BVB]

i thought you were leaving? broken promise and a lot of hot air, most likely.

 

[Joe Link]

If a congressperson with a D after their name votes against an anti-gun bill, are they not pro-gun, even if just for that moment?

The world doesn't work in absolutes.

 

[Father of four]

"Bull crap they spew" - you must be joking. That tells me you only want people here who agree with you.

No. I have 4,300 posts that prove otherwise.

It is not the disagreements. Its the belittling, the snaky remarks, etc... It really is a fact that people from the left have a lot harder time talking, debating, discussing a topic that they disagree with without them using personal attacks. Now yes. I have heard the right doing the same thing. For a while here it was the left that did the most of it and as of say the last year I guess the people from the right have had enough and are fighting back. Maybe they have had enough of the so called "compromises" that have been occurring here in America. I for one think that the majority of the compromising has not helped this country but has drastically hurt it. I think many honestly feel this country is going down the wrong track and are more vocal. Sometimes they may even be cranky and bitter. I am not saying its right but I do understand. I am not a republican. I am a independent. I do not just attack someone for being a lefty or a democrat. But I do think that the left and the democrats are and have done a lot of damage. So has the republicans.

 

[svxr8dr]

If a congressperson with a D after their name votes against an anti-gun bill, are they not pro-gun, even if just for that moment?

The world doesn't work in absolutes.

Not absolutes?!?!?! Gun Control is only a plank of the Democratic Party for crying out loud.

 

[Norm0931]

That's an oxymoron is it not?

But to think, you truly believe that.
Unreal!
Liberals are the problem gun owner or not, and its because it is the one issue you'll compromise on. Perhaps not all of you, but the overwhelming majority do, and we see the evidence of this by how your party runs roughshod over the 2A. A little here and a little there, just like in Kalifornia.
Compromising away our rights just like grinding ever slowly, just a little bit at a time...

Betsy Johnson, Democrat, is ALWAYS the vote the saves us from Gun Control in the state. I had more to say but, either 1) you are trolling or 2) you are honestly so ignorant and hateful that you will never see reality, either way, hopefully Joe locks the thread.

 

[svxr8dr]

Betsy Johnson, Democrat, is ALWAYS the vote the saves us from Gun Control in the state. I had more to say but, either 1) you are trolling or 2) you are honestly so ignorant and hateful that you will never see reality, either way, hopefully Joe locks the thread.

In Washington State Democrats are the party that constantly wanted to suspend the 4th Amendment to make sure firearms in your home were secure (See Ed Murray, now Mayor of Seattle and member of MAIG), They are the party that lets out of stater's like Gabby Gifford's and Mark Kelly speak at State legislative hearings, WA State Democrats worked just last year on HB1588 involving UBC's, and now are actively supporting and endorsing I-594.

That's not trolling that reality. So drop you ignorance, discard your blinders and wake the bubblegum up.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Any time you right thinking patriots want to escape the left's inanity and lack of logical cogitation, come over to the light side and join us over there

 

[Dunerunner]

When you go to the table to compromise on something you already have or have compromised on before, you have capitulated to the incrementalist's vision of progressive change. The Constitution and Bill of Rights should never be compromised.

Would you willingly give up the ability to protect your family, property, and yourself. Or, would you risk becoming a criminal opposing laws restricting your rights or abilities to protect yourself. Are you willing to become a victim of the lawless and your Government? Is it more important to see to the Nations Social needs than to preserve your freedom to defend yourself? Everyone needs to establish some priorities, be they Democrat, Republican, Libertarian or Independent.

 

[Norm0931]

In Washington State Democrats are the party that constantly wanted to suspend the 4th Amendment to make sure firearms in your home were secure (See Ed Murray, now Mayor of Seattle and member of MAIG), They are the party that lets out of stater's like Gabby Gifford's and Mark Kelly speak at State legislative hearings, WA State Democrats worked just last year on HB1588 involving UBC's, and now are actively supporting and endorsing I-594.

That's not trolling that reality. So drop you ignorance, discard your blinders and wake the bubblegum up.

But, once again, not every Democrat is against guns. Betsy Johnson = Pro Gun Democrat. CONSISTENT Pro Gun voting record. I'm not saying that the Democratic party as a whole is not anti-gun. I'm saying that judge a candidate on the actual issues, not which party they are in.

Floyd Prozanski let Mark Kelly's pathetic *** speak here too. At least a Pro-gun Congressman pointed out he had no business being there because: 1) he isn't an Oregonian, and 2) he isn't a firearms expert.

 

[svxr8dr]

But, once again, not every Democrat is against guns. Betsy Johnson = Pro Gun Democrat. CONSISTENT Pro Gun voting record. I'm not saying that the Democratic party as a whole is not anti-gun. I'm saying that judge a candidate on the actual issues, not which party they are in.

So I should judge individual Klan members, not the organization that they belong to.....thanks for the clarification.

 

[JRuby]

It would seem to me that when trying to fight a war the more allies you have the better chance you have of winning.

 

[DireWolf]

No. I have 4,300 posts that prove otherwise.

It is not the disagreements. Its the belittling, the snaky remarks, etc... It really is a fact that people from the left have a lot harder time talking, debating, discussing a topic that they disagree with without them using personal attacks. Now yes. I have heard the right doing the same thing. For a while here it was the left that did the most of it and as of say the last year I guess the people from the right have had enough and are fighting back. Maybe they have had enough of the so called "compromises" that have been occurring here in America. I for one think that the majority of the compromising has not helped this country but has drastically hurt it. I think many honestly feel this country is going down the wrong track and are more vocal. Sometimes they may even be cranky and bitter. I am not saying its right but I do understand. I am not a republican. I am a independent. I do not just attack someone for being a lefty or a democrat. But I do think that the left and the democrats are and have done a lot of damage. So has the republicans.

You can't have a reasonable discussion when your attitude about who is responsible for what is so jaded and biased. Thats exactly what I am talking about - selective indignation.

You see things one way - the "libs" are the problem. That kind of thinking *is* the problem, and had no political slant.

 

[Norcuron]

1. I vote for the banning of the word bubblegum on this and every other forum in the world unless it is in reference to something someone is chewing. If you can use the word asshurt, why are you substituting bubblegum for anything else.

2. This debate is a very interesting one because you have as wide of a gap from opposing sides as possible. You have people who think every gun should be confiscated and destroyed to people who would love to park an F-22 in their driveway fully armed in case someone needs to learn a lesson. I think a key point here is people need to GET INVOLVED. This will mean different things for different people. Some may just try to read more to become more educated and others may camp on the steps of the capital to make sure people know how they feel.
While much of the bantering that happens on this site is BS and people roll their eyes, what you may not think about is that there are many others who read and rarely post. Those people may want to get involved more and are here or at other forums to educate themselves. As a result they may discover a new way to get involved and hopefully make a difference. Let's help them off the fence.
I will close with this. The worst thing that can be done is simply sit at home and type argumentative forum posts simply stating why you disagree with someone else because they are too conservative or too liberal. Do something/anything that will truly increase your knowledge of the subject and then go make a difference.

P.S. My personal take? There are way too many wackos wanting to confiscate all guns and destroy them than people who want F-22s in their driveways (ok yes that would be cool) and a head in the sand approach trusting some leader somewhere will protect our 2A rights is truly crazy.

 

[Tbucket]

No need to strip to the bones, conforming to the rules and proper moderation is the key. Joe has stated this is going to happen, this has been said over and over. I come hear because I have a small business,many projects, a family, pets and a home. I may have a whopping 5 minutes in my day to enjoy my firearms and read up on political issues. I attend the rallies at the Capitol when I can break free and also spread the pro 2a word at my business with customers who are willing to listen. I believe in hearing all sides to an issue and make my decisions from there. This forum suits my needs perfectly, I have learned more things here than any other forum I have been on. I admire Joe for trying to keep a firearm forum where all these things can be presented, knowledge is never furthered by only listening to one side. If that's what you want, then by all means go to the other site but please do not alter this one because not all of us want "its my way or the highway" type of deal. I understand the no compromise deal but we have to figure out a better way to present our argument because threats, degrading and name calling are going to get us nowhere.

 

[Dunerunner]

Maybe some of those here who want or expect compromise on the 2A should list what they are willing to give up.

Are you in favor of banning magazines greater than 10 rounds?
Are you in favor of universal background checks?
Are you in favor of laws that punish those who do not secure their firearms and have them stolen?
Are you in favor of restrictions on ammunition?
Are you in favor of "Smart" firearms like the one introduced in California? First ?smart? pistol hits shelves in California | Fox News
Are you in favor of doing away with Concealed and Open carry?
Are you in favor of eliminating laws protecting home owners who defend their family and property with a gun?
Are you in support of limitations on the number and type of firearms you can own?
Are you in support of limiting the amount of ammunition you can have?
Do you favor limiting the number and type of firearms you can purchase?
Do you favor registration of firearms?

Post World War II Germans capitulated to nearly all of these restrictions without a Second Amendment to protect them. How much freedom are you willing to sacrifice for some empty promise of security. Because, I guarantee you the criminal element in this country will not adhere to any of those compromises that you might agree to. The SCOTUS has already ruled that felons are not required to register illegal firearms under protection of the 5th Amendment, self incrimination.

Time to set aside to party line bickering and think about just where your gun rights might be if you lived in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut or California.

 

[Norm0931]

This thread was so derailed because Gunfixx stopped having anything productive to come back with so he started making it sound like anyone who disagreed with him was antigun. Common tactic of ignorant extremists. We see Obama, Feinstein, and Pelosi use this a lot.

No one here said anything about compromising on gun control. In fact, 3 pages back I posted that the reason to NOT compromise on gun control was because it is ineffective, not because certain individuals are Mindless George Soros puppets who are caught up in the R vs D war.


What I said was this "no compromise" on ANYTHING because it disagrees with how certain individuals view the Constitution and advocating for the genocide of Americans who disagree is horsebubblegum.

 

[JRuby]

Again we do have common ground, but the fact remains that this website actually foments such divisive discussion by even allowing opportunity for such discussion.
!

You are so willing to enforce your views of the 2A that you are willing to take others 1A away - to me that is hypocrisy. All rights have validity even if you dont like what others have to say.

 

[Dunerunner]

Let's stay focused on the Second Amendment. No one takes another's First Amendment right away, we self regulate based upon our core values and beliefs. This is how discussions get side tracked and plunge into personal attacks.

I say no more infringement of the First through the Twenty Seventh Amendments and Government must hold true to the Constitution! We are being divided. If you see it, you need to act to stop it.

As Americans, we owe that to our fore fathers and those who will be raised here after we are gone. This country is the last chance for freedom in the world. America has always set an example and never been a follower. The Grand Experiment of self government was spawned here. Either we unite and set aside our petty differences or we fall.

For me, this discussion has run its course and should it continue I fear it will only become more divisive. If you think for a minute that by doing nothing everything will be alright, there are plenty of examples in the world where doing just that has resulted in decades of lost freedoms!!