I bought pepper spray for women, are there places they can't carry?

[SPU]

I did Google searches and a search here, but can't find specific info on where pepper spray can or cannot be carried. I know you cannot bring pepper spray on airplanes. I checked my County Sheriff website but there is no information on Spray specifically.

My wife won't carry a handgun but will carry pepper spray. My daughter just turned 18 and asked for some protection and will carry pepper spray.

My wife works for the state of Oregon and my daughter is still in high school. Are there obvious problems if they have a small can on their key rings?

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[SVT-ROY]

Interesting, I'm not aware it's not ok to carry OC in some places. The woman carries her FOX 5.3mil everywhere. That stuff is no joke.

 

[Boomer50]

I did Google searches and a search here, but can't find specific info on where pepper spray can or cannot be carried. I know you cannot bring pepper spray on airplanes. I checked my County Sheriff website but there is no information on Spray specifically.

My wife won't carry a handgun but will carry pepper spray. My daughter just turned 18 and asked for some protection and will carry pepper spray.

My wife works for the state of Oregon and my daughter is still in high school. Are there obvious problems if they have a small can on their key rings?

Anyplace with metal detector/search security stations, like the secure areas of airports, and all courthouses, and also Greyhound buses. The worst that they will do is confiscate it---no law agent would arrest any woman for carrying defense spray even if it WAS illegal at that place. Boomer50

 

[etrain16]

I keep pepper spray around. It's hard to find an exact rule, but each time I've looked it up, I've found time after time that it is, generally, legal to use for self-defense in Oregon. Just as with firearms laws, individual jurisdictions may have different restrictions. Some I've seen restrict how much you can carry - the City of Portland restricts you to containers of 4 ounces or less.

Here are some links with information, including info on Portland (I see you're not in that area, just information)

http://www.portlandonline.com/auditor/?c=28514&a=15439

http://www.cabelas.com/assets/product_files/pdf/pepperspray_lawsregulation.pdf

http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/2009/161.205

 

[PORSCHE928S4]

Fox and Sabre OC ( Oleoresin Capisicam) the bad guy's are allergic to it !

 

[GunRightsCoalition]

In Washington it is not allowed at some of the Universities. That said when I went to my daughters orientation last year the Police Chief for the campus stated that is in not allowed and then also stated that they are not going to be looking in the bags of the young woman there to see if they have any. Another words they are not going to enforce it if it is not visible.

 

[SPU]

Thank you gentlemen. etrain I'll check out the links...

 

[Doc In UPlace]

I don't believe the laws are gender-specific regarding weapons. I agree with the post above, be disarmed when passing through metal detectors.

 

[ak56]

In Washington it is not allowed at some of the Universities. That said when I went to my daughters orientation last year the Police Chief for the campus stated that is in not allowed and then also stated that they are not going to be looking in the bags of the young woman there to see if they have any. Another words they are not going to enforce it if it is not visible.

Which University was this?

RCW 9.91.160
Personal protection spray devices.

(2) No town, city, county, special purpose district, quasi-municipal corporation or other unit of government may prohibit a person eighteen years old or older, or a person fourteen years old or older who has the permission of a parent or guardian to do so, from purchasing or possessing a personal protection spray device or from using such a device in a manner consistent with the authorized use of force under RCW 9A.16.020. No town, city, county, special purpose district, quasi-municipal corporation, or other unit of government may prohibit a person eighteen years old or older from delivering a personal protection spray device to a person authorized to possess such a device.

 

[GunRightsCoalition]

Which University was this?

EWU,
thanks for digging this up. Looks like I need to do a bit of research into this and maybe have a chat with the Police Chief there.

 

[GunRightsCoalition]

Okay as I understand it the RCW will take precedence? Here is the conflict with the WAC regarding EWU.

RCW 9.91.160
Personal protection spray devices.

(2) No town, city, county, special purpose district, quasi-municipal corporation or other unit of government may prohibit a person eighteen years old or older, or a person fourteen years old or older who has the permission of a parent or guardian to do so, from purchasing or possessing a personal protection spray device or from using such a device in a manner consistent with the authorized use of force under RCW 9A.16.020. No town, city, county, special purpose district, quasi-municipal corporation, or other unit of government may prohibit a person eighteen years old or older from delivering a personal protection spray device to a person authorized to possess such a device.

WAC 172-122-120

Firearms/weapons.
Violations of the subsections of this section are subject to appropriate disciplinary or legal action.
(1) Possession, carrying, or discharge of any explosive, firearm, chemical weapon (or dangerous chemical) or other weapon; including shotguns, pistols, air guns, pellet guns, and paint ball guns, whether loaded or unloaded; is prohibited on property owned or controlled by Eastern Washington University.

 

[etrain16]

Okay as I understand it the RCW will take precedence? Here is the conflict with the WAC regarding EWU.

RCW 9.91.160
Personal protection spray devices.

(2) No town, city, county, special purpose district, quasi-municipal corporation or other unit of government may prohibit a person eighteen years old or older, or a person fourteen years old or older who has the permission of a parent or guardian to do so, from purchasing or possessing a personal protection spray device or from using such a device in a manner consistent with the authorized use of force under RCW 9A.16.020. No town, city, county, special purpose district, quasi-municipal corporation, or other unit of government may prohibit a person eighteen years old or older from delivering a personal protection spray device to a person authorized to possess such a device.

WAC 172-122-120

Firearms/weapons.
Violations of the subsections of this section are subject to appropriate disciplinary or legal action.
(1) Possession, carrying, or discharge of any explosive, firearm, chemical weapon (or dangerous chemical) or other weapon; including shotguns, pistols, air guns, pellet guns, and paint ball guns, whether loaded or unloaded; is prohibited on property owned or controlled by Eastern Washington University.

My first question would be: what is the definition of a "chemical weapon (or dangerous chemical)? I've seen similar language used in other places where the definition of 'chemical weapon' specifically excluded items such as pepper spray. Getting this defined could be very important. I tried to look it up on the WAC site, but I couldn't find their definition. Sounds like it could be left up to some interpretation, or left intentionally vague so as to allow them the widest possible latitude in prosecuting people. Reasonably speaking, this rule could get you in trouble for possessing something as benign, yet potentially dangerous as chlorine bleach or ammonia - combined together, they are deadly. Yet a student living on campus may just have both on hand for cleaning.

You really have to watch the language these rule makers use. It's all very deliberate, so any response to them must be equally deliberate. It's really a pain in the a$$.

 

[GunRightsCoalition]

I'm going to contact a few people to see what else I can dig up on this. It seems to me that because the RCW itself explicitly carves out the exception and is the actual law (whereas the WAC is Administrative Code) that the RCW would trump the WAC regardless of the definition.

Okay, I presented this information both to a friend that is a prosecuting attorney and to a friend that is a house representative and will present the responses here once I get their opinions.

 

[ak56]

This is from the Office of the Superintendent of Public Instruction:

Protective Spray Devices
Under RCW 9.91.160, students age 14 years and older may legally possess personal protective spray devices (such as Mace and pepper spray) if that student has parent permission. Schools or other units of government may not prohibit the possession of personal protection spray devices, if the student is at least 14 years of age with parent permission, or of any person age 18 or older.

While the OSPI only oversees K-12 education, it is notable that they acknowledge that Schools may not prohibit the possession of pepper spray. I have seen this reflected in High School Student Handbooks as well.

If K-12 schools cannot prohibit it, I can't see how a public University can. WAC's cannot trump the RCW.

 

[GunRightsCoalition]

This is from the Office of the Superintendent of Public Instruction:



While the OSPI only oversees K-12 education, it is notable that they acknowledge that Schools may not prohibit the possession of pepper spray. I have seen this reflected in High School Student Handbooks as well.

If K-12 schools cannot prohibit it, I can't see how a public University can. WAC's cannot trump the RCW.

I actually caught that and was wondering how the public high schools were dealing with it.

 

[ak56]

I actually caught that and was wondering how the public high schools were dealing with it.

When I first ran across this, I checked my Niece's High School website, and It clearly stated that they were allowed to carry pepper spray, and referenced the RCW.

 

[lowly monk]

My wife was asked to remove hers from key chain at the social security office here in beaverton. The guard said she could be fined.
http://www.portlandonline.com/auditor/?c=28514&a=15439

 

[GunRightsCoalition]

Okay, quick update here on the apparent conflict between the RCW and the WAC. The representative that I presented this to has asked me to send him an official request for legislation to get it clarified. Presumably through modification of the WAC. We might not get them to let our young adults carry firearms for protection but at least we can make it so they don't need to be afraid if their pepper spray falls out of their bag. Or to carry it on a wrist strap where it's handy to get to. For me this is a big deal as my daughter was walking back to the dorms at about 10 PM after one of her classes and the campus there is an open campus.

 

[ak56]

Okay, quick update here on the apparent conflict between the RCW and the WAC. The representative that I presented this to has asked me to send him an official request for legislation to get it clarified. Presumably through modification of the WAC. We might not get them to let our young adults carry firearms for protection but at least we can make it so they don't need to be afraid if their pepper spray falls out of their bag. Or to carry it on a wrist strap where it's handy to get to. For me this is a big deal as my daughter was walking back to the dorms at about 10 PM after one of her classes and the campus there is an open campus.

I think a better approach would be for that representative to request an opinion from the Attorney General requesting clarification on where the University gets the authority to establish rules that violate state laws. The RCW doesn't need clarification.

 

[GunRightsCoalition]

I think a better approach would be for that representative to request an opinion from the Attorney General requesting clarification on where the University gets the authority to establish rules that violate state laws. The RCW doesn't need clarification.

The RCW itself doesn't need clarification. The WAC does as there isn't a clear definition of chemical weapon and therefore either an exception needs to be made or the definition needs to be clear. WAC's are supposed to be consistent with the RCW's. I'll let him figure out how to actually approach it though.