How would a manufacturer tell you fired reloads?

[CLT65]

A friend was shooting some years back, pulled the trigger on a round that didn't feel right. He cycled the slide and an empty dropped out. He shrugged and was squeezing the trigger again when his friend stopped him. Sure enough they found a slug lodged in the barrel. Remington factory ammo as I recall.

From what I've seen over the years, double charges loaded carelessly on a progressive are the usual culprit.

In 30 years of reloading, I've never had a blowup. One squib long ago, and never a double change, but I'm "persnickety" with reloading.

 

[Boboclown]

The owner admitted to having bought the ammo at a garage sale.

I wonder what makes people think its ever a good idea to buy ammo at a garage sale.

 

[Flopsweat]

I wonder what makes people think its ever a good idea to buy ammo at a garage sale.

Right up there with gas station sushi.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Does a case deform the same way in a legitimate kaboom as it does under normal firing? If morality isn't good enough for you, consider that whoever investigates the warrantee claim may well know the answer to that question and more. There's more than one reason for the phrase "Honesty is the best policy".

i get it. honesty is the best policy. the truth can hurt sometimes. as far as your question, i know i dont know the answer to that.all my reloads are light and ive never had a problem.

i do know that any machine can fail under normal use whether it be within the manufacturing of a firearm or even the factory ammo plant machine. its possible for 1 hot round to squeek by QC i would think. maybe even porosity or an air pocket that QC didnt catch in the casting of a firearm. theres lots of possibilities.

sometimes when stuff fails, its hard to reach an explination.ive had some pretty hot fiocci ammo before. hotter than any other factory ammo ive shot.

what happens when a guy shoots 1000s of rounds of factory ammo thru a gun and the 1 time he shoots a hotter reload the gun fails? is it because the gun was worn out under normal use? or because he shot 1 reload?

 

[Boboclown]

Right up there with gas station sushi.

Why buy gas station sushi when the gas station hot dogs are better?

 

[orygun]

BTW, remanufactured ammo is different from reloads. Reloads are done by individuals and remanufactured is done by, well...a manufacturer.

Uhhh, No.
I used to deal with a question like this concerning rebuilt transmissions vs remanufactured transmissions.

If a "reloader" does all of the same steps that "remanufacturer" does, it's identical. If the "reloader" assembles ammo using new components, is he a reloader, or a maunfacturer?
A person, though, won't carry liability insurance like a company should.

Back to the original thread, I believe that most owners manuals warn against reloaded or remanufactured ammo. In the manual for my Shield it states: "Use only commercially manufactured ammunition with......"
Reading between the lines? New ammo only.

How would they know? Be damn near impossible to tell.

 

[orygun]

i do know that any machine can fail under normal use whether it be within the manufacturing of a firearm or even the factory ammo plant machine. its possible for 1 hot round to squeek by QC i would think. maybe even porosity or an air pocket that QC didnt catch in the casting of a firearm. theres lots of possibilities.

Musta been the early 70s when a friend of ours had a rifle blow up in his face. Eventually Federal Ammunition picked up the bill.

 

[Certaindeaf]

They actually use an earworm.

 

[Alexx1401]

A week or so ago I fired a box of remanufactered .38 special through a gun for which there exists a lifetime warranty. It's exceedingly rare for me to shoot remanufactured ammo, and each time there's always that subtle fear that something is more likely to go wrong than with new factory ammo... and... if something does go wrong (kaboom) the gun manufacturer will argue that warranty coverage was voided when I fired the reloaded ammo.

Fortunately nothing went wrong, but it made a question (or several) occur to me: Supposing something did go wrong (and I were more unscrupulous than I actually am), how would they ever know? Would they just take my word for it? Are there cost-effective ways for them to tell if a kaboom (or other damage) was caused by the gun or the ammo? Or is it scientifically possible to tell somehow but it isn't worth their trouble/money so they'd just as soon send you a new gun?

I of course see this in every gun warranty and ignore it. If someone blows a gun up by doing something stupid I would guess that the factory may have some clue when they get it back? Don't know. I often assume they put that in there to cover themselves. Since if they did not, and some bozo blows a gun by their own carelessness, the lawyers would show up. Kind of like why the lawn mower can't run if you let go or the hair dryer says not to use it in the shower. If the gun fails due to some defect I have always guessed as long as you did not admit using your own loads how would they ever know?

 

[Kruel J]

Uhhh, No.
I used to deal with a question like this concerning rebuilt transmissions vs remanufactured transmissions.

If a "reloader" does all of the same steps that "remanufacturer" does, it's identical. If the "reloader" assembles ammo using new components, is he a reloader, or a maunfacturer?
A person, though, won't carry liability insurance like a company should.

Back to the original thread, I believe that most owners manuals warn against reloaded or remanufactured ammo. In the manual for my Shield it states: "Use only commercially manufactured ammunition with......"
Reading between the lines? New ammo only.

How would they know? Be damn near impossible to tell.

We are talking about ammunition, not transmissions.

If a reloader labels his rounds as "remanufactured" it, for all intents and purposes, implies he's a manufacturer. There IS a difference.

 

[slimmer13]

Not sure about the question posed in the OP as to how they could tell, but regardless of the reason, I would expect a company with good customer service to replace it, similar to Vortex. User error or no.

 

[P7M13]

Supposing something did go wrong (and I were more unscrupulous than I actually am), how would they ever know? Would they just take my word for it? Are there cost-effective ways for them to tell if a kaboom (or other damage) was caused by the gun or the ammo? Or is it scientifically possible to tell somehow but it isn't worth their trouble/money so they'd just as soon send you a new gun?

Materials amd articles of manufacture fail in very predictable ways. If you consider the hundreds, perhaps thousands, of guns that have failed and they have examined, as soon as an experienced forensic tech looks at it, their intuition would likely isolate it down to two or three possibilities. Then they could look up the serial number and see if there are others from this period with similar failures.
If it was ammo, doesn't matter whether or not it was reloaded or remanufactured. Not their problem. However, being a scrupulous person, the question is moot since you have already sent the reloads in too. Your attorney may not have, since he's filed on behalf of your missing hand.

The word is edumacated. sheesh

I thought that was another word for #2, which many on this forum are engaged in while reading and posting.....

 

[Boboclown]

I thought that was another word for #2, which many on this forum are engaged in while reading and posting.....

Hey, I'm only on here in the bathroom if I'm in the shower.

 

[Alexx1401]

Not sure about the question posed in the OP as to how they could tell, but regardless of the reason, I would expect a company with good customer service to replace it, similar to Vortex. User error or no.

Most often when I have seen a company do this is sooner or later has to tighten things. People being people, tend to abuse this kind of service. While it's great to cover something no matter what this can get expensive. Too many start sending back stuff they abused with the idea it does not matter and we all have to pay for it.

 

[Koda]

Fortunately nothing went wrong, but it made a question (or several) occur to me: Supposing something did go wrong (and I were more unscrupulous than I actually am), how would they ever know?

They would ask you for a sample of the ammo.

Ive had the same question and only have hypotheses, but the few times Ive had to send a gun in for warranty (FTF) issues they always asked me what ammo I was shooting. At a very basic level it makes sense to ask that question.

Are there cost-effective ways for them to tell if a kaboom (or other damage) was caused by the gun or the ammo?

If the gun blows up they can do metallurgy testing on the gun to determine if the gun was at fault. This is cheaper than replacing the gun if its an expensive gun. A properly designed gun will withstand SAMMI pressures.

In the event the gun passes the metallurgy test, then they can ask you for a sample of the ammo you were using.... it would be very suspicious to say it blew up on the last round although one might say they threw the rest away they will ask you when you bought them and from what store.... and that would possibly provide some good information for them to follow up on. This might depend on if the gun manufacturer is suspicious of you claims. I'm assuming at some point they can contact the ammo manufacturer.
I have heard (probably somewhere on this forum) that ammo manufacturers set aside a small sample of ammo from each lot shipments for police work. I don't know if thats true.

this is just my hypotheses.

 

[P7M13]

Hey, I'm only on here in the bathroom if I'm in the shower.

Washing the blood off I suspect?

 

[Koda]

Not sure about the question posed in the OP as to how they could tell, but regardless of the reason, I would expect a company with good customer service to replace it, similar to Vortex. User error or no.

Most often when I have seen a company do this is sooner or later has to tighten things. People being people, tend to abuse this kind of service. While it's great to cover something no matter what this can get expensive. Too many start sending back stuff they abused with the idea it does not matter and we all have to pay for it.

I second Alexx's observations, every single company Ive seen that does this eventually ends up tightening things up. My guess is they can offer this kind of warranty service as long as their returns are less than their profits but there is a threshold for all companies that offer this kind of warranty service. REI is a good example of that, they used to take anything back at any time and so many people abused it they but some limitations on their warranty and no longer offer a lifetime return policy and it was specifically because of their generous policy.

 

[orygun]

We are talking about ammunition, not transmissions.

If a reloader labels his rounds as "remanufactured" it, for all intents and purposes, implies he's a manufacturer. There IS a difference.

The process of taking a used product and returning it to it's prior capabilities differs for all items, but the debate of which terminology to use will go on forever. I assumed my analogy wouldn't be misunderstood.
It doesn't matter what you call it, anything but brand new ammunition can cause a firearms company to deny warranty or transfer liability to the company that made the ammo.
It's a risk I'm happy to take because I enjoy the process of working up loads and testing them.

 

[Kruel J]

Right, but "remanufactured" ammunition is done by companies that have a process and equipment to streamline said process. As well as a system for constant QC checks along the way. They have to, because they are selling it to the public and don't want to risk being known for kablooey ammo.

"Reloads" are done by a guy in his garage/shop for personal use. I'm definitely not saying that's a bad thing, but I think that it carries more risk for a hot load.

 

[DirectDrive]

Right, but "remanufactured" ammunition is done by companies that have a process and equipment to streamline said process. As well as a system for constant QC checks along the way. They have to, because they are selling it to the public and don't want to risk being known for kablooey ammo.

"Reloads" are done by a guy in his garage/shop for personal use. I'm definitely not saying that's a bad thing, but I think that it carries more risk for a hot load.

I still shy away from "reman".
In my mind I have to accept more risk with reman as compared to newly manufactured ammo.
Although new ammo has caused KABOOMS.

To the OP, I can't see how the rifle mfr could detect reloads or reman unless (as mentioned) there was a mismatched case head and primer available to them.
In any case, KABOOMS are almost always attributable to the ammo.
There are exceptions like a user-caused muzzle obstruction.