How effective is an expandable baton?

[mkwerx]

Funny thing is, even though I wore an ASP, my 6D flashlight was always my go-to.

View attachment 708808

Was not a copper, but when I was a security monkey my 4D Mag was my choice of impact weapon. It sucked as a flash light compared to the stuff we have now, but if you got hit with one, you knew it! I still say that pepper spray and good combatives are better for the private citizen for dealing with 2 legged animals. A baton or stick may be good against a 4 legged critter. Dogs probably won't like pepper spray either tho.

 

[Blondeziegbart]

Mutts are the ONLY thing I've used an expandable baton for here in WA. I had a shorty for a long time, good to carry jogging. "I think" 16". I needed the thing against POS pitbulls roving around from idiot owners. Twice.

First time, dog bit me on the bubblegum when I ran by, that was a bad day. Didn't get a chunk of me, but drew blood and I was at the clinic hours later. I slammed that thing right in the head with every...thing...I...had. Hopefully it was dead on the spot, because it sure folded up fast. I kept running, perpendicular to that mess, or rather cut my run short and went to the clinic. 50 lb dog: 0, Me: 1.

Other dog that confronted me got a half-hit on it's rump. It wanted no further part of me, it was younger/smaller fortunately. I kept running. That was twice in two years, far too often IMO.

These days I have a 21" of vastly higher quality, as personal protection that augments pepper spray. I have a plastic tip, which apparently is for "safety" and reduces chances of a lethal strike, as others mention. I would never, ever, walk or run w/o a folding baton, either one. I carry a small pepper spray on my left wrist, that's first go-to of course.

Never used one against a man; sounds not-optimal per others on this thread. For that I'd prefer a bo staff, but this isn't Nottingham Forest and I'm not Friar Tuck.

 

[Tom Louis]

I am an avid, long time (40+ years) bicycle rider. Early on there was a dog on one of my regular routes, a rather large pitbull type that was tethered by a short chain to a cable run of about one hundred feet. When he hit the end of his run at full speed he went a$$ over teakettle but was quickly up to continue swearing at the fresh meat on a bicycle. I was pretty sure I didn't want to be there when the weak link on his chain gave up, so I altered my ride and looked for solutions as that was not an uncommon issue for bicyclists. From experience, pepper spray is at best an inconsistent deterrent to aggressive dogs and horns are bulky and don't work well either. What works consistently for me has been the water bottles that most riders have on the down and seat tubes of their bikes. Metal bottles do not work, they must be the flexible bodied type. Think large squirt gun. Even if it doesn't totally deter the dog it will keep it away long enough to get clear. Well, that and that extra burst of fear adrenaline. Tom

 

[cooper]

An ASP is quite effective as a control/striking tool if legal deployment possible. Pretty grey for citizen use...lawfull to own BUT...
MUST BE OPEN CARRY...
USE BY CITIZENSHIP????
THAT IS GREY....THAT IS WHERE INTENT KINDA BACKFIRES
MY TAKE AS CONSTITUENT...
I OWN 3 ASP, 2 REGULAR LENGTH AND ONE 16". THESE ARE FRICTION LOCK , HARD TO CLOSE BUT EASY TO OPEN. TWIST LOCK IS APPEALING BUT I HAVE CONCERN OF POSSIBLE CLOSURE DURING USE.
I HAVE YET TO RESEARCH THAT ASSUMPTION THOUGH (TWIST LOCK )

 

[Geardo]

First time, dog bit me on the bubblegum when I ran by, that was a bad day. Didn't get a chunk of me, but drew blood and I was at the clinic hours later. I slammed that thing right in the head with every...thing...I...had. Hopefully it was dead on the spot, because it sure folded up fast. I kept running, perpendicular to that mess, or rather cut my run short and went to the clinic. 50 lb dog: 0, Me: 1.

This is kinda my thinking. We have a GSD that has tried to get at my dog twice, and some little fluffy white POS dog that bit my wife the other day. I actually got the little white dog in the face with sabre and it kept coming, so I am not sure I would want to rely on it for a bigger dog, but i still carry it for a curious midly aggresive loose dog.

For a bigger or very aggresive dog, my plan it to smack it in the face, and if it gets past me I am going to smash the baton down on its spine/neck as hard as I can. Inhave also had issues with big aggresive dogs at the dog park and will carry it there as well.

I usually have my baby boy strapped to my chest, so I can't be kicking and running and stuff, and would prefer to not have to fire off a round in my neighborhood.

 

[QualityControl]

The OSP trained us in arrest techniques. Handcuffs/etc. - also batons. They liked the wooden ones - a friend of mine gave me one. We trained with the plastic tubes that florescent light tubes came in - training with the wooden batons would cause too many injuries. Even with just a light plastic tube, properly used, it stung enough to make most people drop their training knife (rubber IIRC).

The technique was to not swing your arm, but use your wrist and the tip of the baton. It was very effective IMO and IME (in practice). You hold the baton in front of you and instead of swinging it, you twist your wrist and strike with the tip of the baton - striking a joint, the wrist, elbow, shoulder or knee. Even with the plastic tubes, it hurts - with a wood or metal baton - I imagine a lot more.

One of the benefits is speed. Another is you can hold the baton such that you can block blows. When used properly, you are less likely to cause broken bones. Finally, you don't wind up on the front page like this:

View attachment 708758

Notice how open he is to a counter attack?

Does this look like he is defending himself or is he being aggressive and attacking the other person?

Called a witik or jabbing/snapping strike. Quick and painfil to hand, wrists, collarbone, and bridge. If someone grabs your weapon arm, you can still witik them as well. Also a redondo strike (whipping with the arm and wrsit) would also be a fast and very powerful strike that would reset quickly to fire off more rapid fire shots or follow up with the butt end of the baton. Using the whipping motion a rondondo strike you can generate just as much force as a forehand caveman strike. These strikes are also much less threatening (to bystanders watching) and faster than the hit and retract you see above.




Q

 

[Alexx1401]

HA! GOAT and your MOM! I love these guys!

The guy I was talking about looks pretty similar.

Feel like I need to bleach my eye's after watching a few seconds of that

 

[QualityControl]

sjambok

We've done some sparring with these in the past and believe me, they are nasty. Something I posted a number of years ago...

"I had received a 36" Cold Steel synthetic Sjambok from one of our linked companies, knivesplus. They come in 36", 41", and 54". The 36" is a bit over 1" in diameter at the handle and tapers down to just over 3/8" at the tip. I have been wanting to play around with one of these for a while and I have to say...I REALLY LIKE IT!!! Some folks have suggested using paracord on the handle and I guess that's fine. I removed the red plastic handle that came on it. I prefer using it bare. It just looks like a piece of extruded plastic (which it is). You start putting on handles and a lanyard, it starts taking on the look of a weapon (IMHO). I prefer low key.. It's non-lethal in the sense that you would really have to beat someone continuously for quite a while to kill them. But for changing someone's mind about F-ing with you, it will do the job very, very quickly. The sound of it cutting through the air is probably enough give most people second thoughts. It will cut through light clothing and even moderate power strikes cause searing pain and welts. Stiff enough to thrust to the face effectively, full power strikes cut through cardboard boxes....you can imagine what that would do to bare skin. Lightning fast, and effective for punyo (butt end) strikes at close quarters. You could easily place ******************. The tip flexes enough to bend around the shoulder, and palm the handle. It's extremely fast and when you combine that with our PTK footwork, striking mechanics, and bridging tactics....you have a formidable non-lethal (but debilitating) deterrent"

Just posting as informational, not suggesting anyone do anything they shouldn't.

Q.

 

[Alexx1401]

If you stab someone in the eye hard enough that it goes into the brain it might have some value.
I don't have much faith in light little impact devices having seen many times what it takes to actually stop someone intent on doing harm.

On 2 legged yes, batons are only much good for those who are afraid of pain. When you see all the video of zombies soaking up multiple rounds from a service pistol how could you expect any baton to do anything to them.

 

[sobo]

Feel like I need to bleach my eye's after watching a few seconds of that

I'm glad I didn't click. Was it anything like Two Girls and a Cup or Goatse?

 

[Alexx1401]

I've broke out windows?

They can be amazingly hard to break with a baton if the user does not do it correctly. LOT's of video of Cops taking multiple hits on a window with no harm to window. That is one place the steel ball on the end shines. If that makes contact glass will give. Asp makes an end cap that is made for punching out a window that does work very well. Have used it to gain entry to a vehicle and it was easy. If some dog had their teeth in someone or someones dog that end cap to the dogs scull would probably serve well to make the dog let go

 

[No_Regerts]

Where is @Captain O ? He has all sorts of medieval torture devices!

 

[Alexx1401]

I'm glad I didn't click. Was it anything like Two Girls and a Cup or Goatse?

LOL, I have heard of the 2 girls and cup. Was never brave enough to look it up

 

[bbbass]

Me $0.02:

My understanding from watching the Active Self Protection channel is that a baton is not very effective in untrained hands. And that pain compliance in the best scenario only works about 25% of the time. Against a hopped up or crazy person... I don't think so.

I've read that these are very effective against rogue doggies:



It is said that sometimes just the noise and sparking will drive them away.

 

[sobo]

LOL, I have heard of the 2 girls and cup. Was never brave enough to look it up

Don't ever work yourself up to that level of bravery. Trust me on this...

 

[DunRanull]

Funny thing is, even though I wore an ASP, my 6D flashlight was always my go-to.

View attachment 708808

Use of the flashlight as a clubbing tool is defined as "lethal force" in Colorado.. they some mean mamajamas!

 

[Alexx1401]

Was not a copper, but when I was a security monkey my 4D Mag was my choice of impact weapon. It sucked as a flash light compared to the stuff we have now, but if you got hit with one, you knew it! I still say that pepper spray and good combatives are better for the private citizen for dealing with 2 legged animals. A baton or stick may be good against a 4 legged critter. Dogs probably won't like pepper spray either tho.

I have LONG used OC for dogs. Has yet to fail on a dog. VERY hit and miss on 2 legged. For many years now I have carried a walking stick / cane made for this. Its some kind of plastic but is very heavy and seems to be indestructible. I have often been able to hold off another dog with it in hand without having to even touch the other dog. Which is perfect to me as I do not want to hurt the other dog if I don't have to. It's not the dogs fault, it's the moron who owns them. While back I did wack a VERY large St. Bernard with it when it was just determined to get the dog my Wife was walking. Damn dog kept trying to get around me, was zeroed in on Wife's dog. One crack and it did back the hell off.

 

[bbbass]

Note: I do have a collapsible baton that I bought for the wife and because she is older I don't think she can use it effectively. So I took my 4D cell out of the driver's side pocket in the car (CREE lights are so much better), and put the baton in there. I don't use it for less lethal... If I need it, it will be to break a window in a rescue since I can never find my window and belt emergency tool.

 

[Alexx1401]

Use of the flashlight as a clubbing tool is defined as "lethal force" in Colorado.. they some mean mamajamas!

Yep, many forces made the Officers stop carrying the Maglights for just that reason. When they took the Saps away from the local guys here I used to work with many of them started to carry a 3D in the Sap pocket on their pants instead. Works almost as well

 

[bbbass]

Make sure you use good OC spray... I'm told there is a lot of variability in contents.