First thread! How about essential defensive pistol functions?

[Apocalypso]

There are many essentials for a defensive pistol, among them, the reliable ability to NOT shoot, as well as absolute reliability TO shoot. A successful defensive handgun engagement may resolve without a shot fired, but there will be some extremely high stress gun handling, even if just for reholstering. So, to that point, I will cheerfully assert that an ideal defensive handgun will have:
- An initial trigger pull that mitigates the risk of a less-than-deliberate first shot.
- Second strike capability. Pull the trigger again for another primer strike.
- Completely ambidextrous controls. You may not have the luxury of using your dominant hand, or both hands.
- A hammer or striker control plate to prevent ND while reholstering.
- A decocking mechanism to revert to a deliberate trigger pull, which cannot be left in a no-fire "safe" mode; i.e., spring return to fire mode after decocking.
- If continuity of fire is expected after an initial shot volley, an easily loaded mag well. Not applicable for those relying solely on the rounds in the gun, with no other mags on person, or most revolver users.
- For "always cocked" guns (striker fired), a manual safety in event the gun must be off your person and control to comply with safety or control commands ("Police, drop your gun!"), or transferred to another person in crisis conditions.

My review of available options reduces the choices to two current models suitable for CCW, and although reasonably light, neither of them are compact. That's based on the requirement for completely ambidextrous controls; trigger, mag release, slide stop, safety/decocker, and hammer or striker control plate, and one-hand second strike capability.

Anticipating two common arguments:

If your finger is your safety, you're not safe. Proven by studies I'm happy to cite.

Second strike is not mandated in order to ignite a theoretical stubborn primer, agreeably so rare in factory ammo that it's not an eventuality that merits obsessive training. But the reality is that a primer struck once unsuccessfully in a defensive engagement will be overwhelmingly likely to ignite on a second strike, because the issue was never the primer, it was the failure to fully headspace or go into battery due to interference in cycling, with some of the energy intended for ignition instead absorbed by round motion relative to the chamber. This absorption itself tends to ready the round for a successful second strike. This phenomenon often occurs due to unusual movement or orientation of the firing hand, or interference with slide motion in grappling or close quarters. Not range conditions, gunfight conditions.

Fair warning: I don't like single action or striker fired guns for defensive emergency use. I do appreciate them for other purposes and reasons.

Well, this should set the fur a flyin'. Flame on!

Read More

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Welcome to the forum.

Just tossing this out there for consideration.....
Not out to argue , change minds or anything else...
Again just posting this as something to consider.

Defensive firearms are very personal and subjective.
What I mean here is....

What works well for one person , in their situation...
May not work so well for someone else in a different situation.
The same can be said for :
Hard and fast "rules" , so to speak , they may not work so well for everyone either.

Which is okay...as long as whatever is chosen , works for that person in their situation.

It does not mean that it will work for you...that it needs to work for you...or that you even need to like it.
To me at least...there is no "right" or "wrong" here.
If what you have and do , works well for you...then do so.
Andy

 

[slimmer13]

The only "essential" function, is that it goes bang. Everything else is preference.

 

[Certaindeaf]

There are many essentials for a defensive pistol, among them, the reliable ability to NOT shoot, as well as absolute reliability TO shoot. A successful defensive handgun engagement may resolve without a shot fired, but there will be some extremely high stress gun handling, even if just for reholstering. So, to that point, I will cheerfully assert that an ideal defensive handgun will have:
- An initial trigger pull that mitigates the risk of a less-than-deliberate first shot.
- Second strike capability. Pull the trigger again for another primer strike.
- Completely ambidextrous controls. You may not have the luxury of using your dominant hand, or both hands.
- A hammer or striker control plate to prevent ND while reholstering.
- A decocking mechanism to revert to a deliberate trigger pull, which cannot be left in a no-fire "safe" mode; i.e., spring return to fire mode after decocking.
- If continuity of fire is expected after an initial shot volley, an easily loaded mag well. Not applicable for those relying solely on the rounds in the gun, with no other mags on person, or most revolver users.
- For "always cocked" guns (striker fired), a manual safety in event the gun must be off your person and control to comply with safety or control commands ("Police, drop your gun!"), or transferred to another person in crisis conditions.

My review of available options reduces the choices to two current models suitable for CCW, and although reasonably light, neither of them are compact. That's based on the requirement for completely ambidextrous controls; trigger, mag release, slide stop, safety/decocker, and hammer or striker control plate, and one-hand second strike capability.

Anticipating two common arguments:

If your finger is your safety, you're not safe. Proven by studies I'm happy to cite.

Second strike is not mandated in order to ignite a theoretical stubborn primer, agreeably so rare in factory ammo that it's not an eventuality that merits obsessive training. But the reality is that a primer struck once unsuccessfully in a defensive engagement will be overwhelmingly likely to ignite on a second strike, because the issue was never the primer, it was the failure to fully headspace or go into battery due to interference in cycling, with some of the energy intended for ignition instead absorbed by round motion relative to the chamber. This absorption itself tends to ready the round for a successful second strike. This phenomenon often occurs due to unusual movement or orientation of the firing hand, or interference with slide motion in grappling or close quarters. Not range conditions, gunfight conditions.

Fair warning: I don't like single action or striker fired guns for defensive emergency use. I do appreciate them for other purposes and reasons.

Well, this should set the fur a flyin'. Flame on!

Oh now.

 

[hongkong2]

There are many essentials for a defensive pistol, among them, the reliable ability to NOT shoot, as well as absolute reliability TO shoot. A successful defensive handgun engagement may resolve without a shot fired, but there will be some extremely high stress gun handling, even if just for reholstering. So, to that point, I will cheerfully assert that an ideal defensive handgun will have:
- An initial trigger pull that mitigates the risk of a less-than-deliberate first shot.
- Second strike capability. Pull the trigger again for another primer strike.
- Completely ambidextrous controls. You may not have the luxury of using your dominant hand, or both hands.
- A hammer or striker control plate to prevent ND while reholstering.
- A decocking mechanism to revert to a deliberate trigger pull, which cannot be left in a no-fire "safe" mode; i.e., spring return to fire mode after decocking.
- If continuity of fire is expected after an initial shot volley, an easily loaded mag well. Not applicable for those relying solely on the rounds in the gun, with no other mags on person, or most revolver users.
- For "always cocked" guns (striker fired), a manual safety in event the gun must be off your person and control to comply with safety or control commands ("Police, drop your gun!"), or transferred to another person in crisis conditions.

My review of available options reduces the choices to two current models suitable for CCW, and although reasonably light, neither of them are compact. That's based on the requirement for completely ambidextrous controls; trigger, mag release, slide stop, safety/decocker, and hammer or striker control plate, and one-hand second strike capability.

Anticipating two common arguments:

If your finger is your safety, you're not safe. Proven by studies I'm happy to cite.

Second strike is not mandated in order to ignite a theoretical stubborn primer, agreeably so rare in factory ammo that it's not an eventuality that merits obsessive training. But the reality is that a primer struck once unsuccessfully in a defensive engagement will be overwhelmingly likely to ignite on a second strike, because the issue was never the primer, it was the failure to fully headspace or go into battery due to interference in cycling, with some of the energy intended for ignition instead absorbed by round motion relative to the chamber. This absorption itself tends to ready the round for a successful second strike. This phenomenon often occurs due to unusual movement or orientation of the firing hand, or interference with slide motion in grappling or close quarters. Not range conditions, gunfight conditions.

Fair warning: I don't like single action or striker fired guns for defensive emergency use. I do appreciate them for other purposes and reasons.

Well, this should set the fur a flyin'. Flame on!

KISS, you need a wheel gun.......

 

[guntrunw]

Sounds like a great development project. Now, if you can just find an angel investor. Your first model could be called the "boomicorn"?

 

[albin25]

A self defense pistol that has more than 1 function??

Did I miss the introduction of the Swiss Army Pistol ?
Heck I didn't even know that Victorianox HAD a booth at ShotShow22.
Hhmmmm ……..we'll I s'pose that the NAA mini revolver can also be a belt buckle, but I wouldn't necessarily call it a pistol (it's a revolver) or for self defense.

 

[MTpockets]

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Don't nerd out on the hypothetical perfect pistol and those details. A good self defender is not created behind a keyboard imagining specs. Instead, find a reliable gun that you like and practice (train) with it, a lot. Don't waste time on hypothetical specs on your computer and be a keyboard warrior. Your "perfect gun" for you that you spend all this time trying to find and never get out to shoot much at all will be 100 times less effective than if you instead found a good gun and practiced with it a lot.

 

[BPS2271]

There are many essentials for a defensive pistol, among them, the reliable ability to NOT shoot, as well as absolute reliability TO shoot. A successful defensive handgun engagement may resolve without a shot fired, but there will be some extremely high stress gun handling, even if just for reholstering. So, to that point, I will cheerfully assert that an ideal defensive handgun will have:
- An initial trigger pull that mitigates the risk of a less-than-deliberate first shot.
- Second strike capability. Pull the trigger again for another primer strike.
- Completely ambidextrous controls. You may not have the luxury of using your dominant hand, or both hands.
- A hammer or striker control plate to prevent ND while reholstering.
- A decocking mechanism to revert to a deliberate trigger pull, which cannot be left in a no-fire "safe" mode; i.e., spring return to fire mode after decocking.
- If continuity of fire is expected after an initial shot volley, an easily loaded mag well. Not applicable for those relying solely on the rounds in the gun, with no other mags on person, or most revolver users.
- For "always cocked" guns (striker fired), a manual safety in event the gun must be off your person and control to comply with safety or control commands ("Police, drop your gun!"), or transferred to another person in crisis conditions.

My review of available options reduces the choices to two current models suitable for CCW, and although reasonably light, neither of them are compact. That's based on the requirement for completely ambidextrous controls; trigger, mag release, slide stop, safety/decocker, and hammer or striker control plate, and one-hand second strike capability.

Anticipating two common arguments:

If your finger is your safety, you're not safe. Proven by studies I'm happy to cite.

Second strike is not mandated in order to ignite a theoretical stubborn primer, agreeably so rare in factory ammo that it's not an eventuality that merits obsessive training. But the reality is that a primer struck once unsuccessfully in a defensive engagement will be overwhelmingly likely to ignite on a second strike, because the issue was never the primer, it was the failure to fully headspace or go into battery due to interference in cycling, with some of the energy intended for ignition instead absorbed by round motion relative to the chamber. This absorption itself tends to ready the round for a successful second strike. This phenomenon often occurs due to unusual movement or orientation of the firing hand, or interference with slide motion in grappling or close quarters. Not range conditions, gunfight conditions.

Fair warning: I don't like single action or striker fired guns for defensive emergency use. I do appreciate them for other purposes and reasons.

Well, this should set the fur a flyin'. Flame on!

With all due respect, cite all the studies you like. Some of us have carried handguns professionally for a LONG, LONG time. MOST of the currently available mainstream handguns are very well suited to defensive pistol work given adequate training and frame of mind. Some are arguably better or worse than others, but most of that is subjective and subject to the confines of the given use. I personally carry a wide range of pistols, most of which break one or more of your stated rules. And I will continue to do so thank you. They have all served me well for many years and I trust them to continue to do so. NONE of them meets all of your criteria by the way (well, MAYBE one.). Good luck.

 

[Nosferatu]

I like the standard Oreos better than the double-stuff. They are easier to carry and don't distort in the pocket as much, while offering a tad more overall capacity without giving up much crème filling.

 

[deadeye]

Probably have a stroke with the variation in handguns I rotate for carry. Get what works for ya and as always remember the three P's of carrying for self defense...........
PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE

 

[Nosferatu]

Probably have a stroke with the variation in handguns I rotate for carry. Get what works for ya and as always remember the three P's of carrying for self defense...........
PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE

I had a hockey coach beat the Six-P's into me: PERFECT Practice Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

 

[titsonritz]

I'm covered (lucky you).

 

[Longwalkhome]

Can't remember who the gun writer was that started the KISS system. Keep It Simple Stupid.

I wish I had learned that years ago.

 

[Z-PDX]

well I got one point not the little must have list.

maybe two if my pistol is considered "easily loaded". kind of a wobbler. I think it is. others may not.


not mandatory. but anyone want to guess what my go-to is?

 

[Nosferatu]

Can't remember who the gun writer was that started the KISS system. Keep It Simple Stupid.

I wish I had learned that years ago.

I believe that was Henry Ford.

 

[oremike]

Welcome to the forum, looks like I've been doing it wrong for a long time. I don't have a single gun that meets all of your criteria.

 

[titsonritz]

- An initial trigger pull that mitigates the risk of a less-than-deliberate first shot.

or just keep you booger hook of the trigger until you want a bang.

- Second strike capability. Pull the trigger again for another primer strike.

There is a lot of stupid nonsense spewed in the gun/defensive world, this is one of the more stupid ones. If I get a click instead of a bang the last thing I'm doing is the same thing that just failed me, I'm not going to pull the trigger again I'm going to tap and rack with purpose and get back to work. It works across the board with SA autos, DA/SA autos, DAO autos and striker-fired autos, basically all of them. This stuff isn't rocket surgery, don't complicate it.

- Completely ambidextrous controls. You may not have the luxury of using your dominant hand, or both hands.

I am left-hand and managed to get by with Gen 3 Glock for years and can competently use them with either hand.

- A hammer or striker control plate to prevent ND while reholstering.

In direct conflict your "second strike" criterion, but whatever. Its real simple, always draw with purpose and holster with reluctance.

- A decocking mechanism to revert to a deliberate trigger pull, which cannot be left in a no-fire "safe" mode; i.e., spring return to fire mode after decocking.

No thanks, but if you want a classic Sig go for it but that would blow you ambi requirement. I will say the Beretta coming out with the updated G type is one of the smartest thing they could have done with their 92 series.

- If continuity of fire is expected after an initial shot volley, an easily loaded mag well.

By the nature of the design all double stack mag pistols have this feature as they have a large mag hole and are insert a single feed mag into it.

- For "always cocked" guns (striker fired), a manual safety in event the gun must be off your person and control to comply with safety or control commands ("Police, drop your gun!"), or transferred to another person in crisis conditions.

Shove your manual safety nonsense, passive safeties are all that is needed. Feel free to fumble your safety to your hearts content but the ONLY manual safety I'll have on a pistol will be a 1911/2011.

My review of available options reduces the choices to two current models suitable for CCW, and although reasonably light, neither of them are compact. That's based on the requirement for completely ambidextrous controls; trigger, mag release, slide stop, safety/decocker, and hammer or striker control plate, and one-hand second strike capability.

Maybe you should broaden your horizons.

If your finger is your safety, you're not safe. Proven by studies I'm happy to cite.

Whatever.

Second strike is not mandated in order to ignite a theoretical stubborn primer, agreeably so rare in factory ammo that it's not an eventuality that merits obsessive training. But the reality is that a primer struck once unsuccessfully in a defensive engagement will be overwhelmingly likely to ignite on a second strike, because the issue was never the primer, it was the failure to fully headspace or go into battery due to interference in cycling, with some of the energy intended for ignition instead absorbed by round motion relative to the chamber. This absorption itself tends to ready the round for a successful second strike. This phenomenon often occurs due to unusual movement or orientation of the firing hand, or interference with slide motion in grappling or close quarters. Not range conditions, gunfight conditions.

Covered this one above.

Fair warning: I don't like single action or striker fired guns for defensive emergency use. I do appreciate them for other purposes and reasons.

Again do what you want, I'll take either over a DA/SA as I prefer a consistent trigger pull every time.

 

[Cerberus Group]

I don't like you makin fun of my mules...