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There is a saying in photography: "You can tell how skilled a photographer is by how quickly he drops the subject of cameras and begins talking about light."
Great analogy. We had a photography business and taught photography for a while. New "shooters" always focused on the equipment. Photographers use the tool to capture the light. Many parallels to new shooters of gun. Going to totally steal this! :)
 
Great analogy. We had a photography business and taught photography for a while. New "shooters" always focused on the equipment. Photographers use the tool to capture the light. Many parallels to new shooters of gun. Going to totally steal this! :)
So what light should I get for my new gun?
 
Six days of lurking on this thread...where to begin?

First, can I nominate the OP for how not to start at NWF based on the second post? The two together read like, "I've been kicked off every other forum, let's try this one."

My reply is for those here that are maybe newer to firearms and interested in perspectives, like the dozen good ones that come before. Kudos to @titsonritz for his well thought out point by point thoughts.

Trigger pull:
Yes, there are studies that show that certain types of ND's are related to trigger pull weight. I've read them. It's a factor but not the only one. I transitioned from revolvers to DA/SA auto to SA and SF guns. Few people shoot DA/SA guns as well as other types of semiautos. They can also lead to a false sense of security that someone has a "safer gun."

Safeties:
I prefer them. I'm in the minority. And 100% support those who choose not to have them. What I try to provide when I teach or work with new shooters is the "why" and let them decide for themselves. It is safer when reholstering (as is a Glock with a disconnector) and believe there is an argument that they are beneficial when moving on uneven surfaces, that are wet, in the dark (or other challenging conditions that appear).
Second strike capability. Pull the trigger again for another primer strike.
Teaches no one with a clue (unless you use revolvers of course). See video posted by @titsonritz . Learn the basic non-diagnostic clearance of tap, rack, evaluate. From watching a few hundred in classes and real-world gunfight videos, this will solve most of your problems.
But the reality is that a primer struck once unsuccessfully in a defensive engagement will be overwhelmingly likely to ignite on a second strike, because the issue was never the primer, it was the failure to fully headspace or go into battery due to interference in cycling, with some of the energy intended for ignition instead absorbed by round motion relative to the chamber. This absorption itself tends to ready the round for a successful second strike. This phenomenon often occurs due to unusual movement or orientation of the firing hand, or interference with slide motion in grappling or close quarters. Not range conditions, gunfight conditions.
Nearly every malfunction in the "real world" I have seen relates to shooting from a compromised position or one handed shooting, causing a less then optimal grip on the gun and a failure to eject. Pulling the trigger does not fix this and wastes time. I show a video where an officer has this happen to her and because she used a non-diagnostic tap, rack and yes, I still need to be shooting the guy coming at me with a knife, she lived. On the range, most malfunctions are due to unseated magazines. Also needing a tap, rack...not a trigger pull.
My review of available options reduces the choices to two current models suitable for CCW, and although reasonably light, neither of them are compact.
So, after over 100 years of fighting handgun development, by dozens of companies, and the collective geniuses of all the designers, the experience of tens of thousands of defensive shootings and input from and untold number of LEO and civilians...nobody has developed the "right" defensive handgun.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, got it.

Between Sig, S&W, Springfield, Glock, Ruger, Kimber, 1911's, and many others, we have a Cheese Cake Factory menu of options. With safety, without safety, 5", 4", 3" and everything in between, Iron or OR, Ambi controls or not, plastic, steel or aluminum, blue/black/stainless. thick/thin, 6-21 round mags.

Yet none of these measure up to be a good defensive handgun?

I encourage armed defenders to examine the many assumptions usually involved in any idealized or imagined gunfight. Reality often involves factors that some rarely consider or practice for, including beginning the fight already injured, multiple assailants, struggling to retain or control your gun or an opponent's weapon, unclear foes vs friendlies, and the chaos of actual close quarters fighting, usually at grappling or near grappling distances.
Agree. But sorry, from your first post, this does not appear to be a consistent statement.
I shoot over 10,000 rounds a year, appreciate all types of guns, and ventured my views of optimal defensive handgun criteria based on lessons hard-learned in 4 decades of armed public safety and LE firearm instruction, homicide investigation, forensic death investigation, and analyses of actual handgun engagements.
You have plenty of folks on this forum that can match or trump you CV. There are many others here that have fantastic insight in many areas and sage wisdom that we can all learn from. I do constantly on this forum. They just don't jump into a thread, unzip and bang it against the wall on each side to show how much bigger and smarter that all of us they are. It's too bad you didn't start off where could have benefited from this.
 
Six days of lurking on this thread...where to begin?

First, can I nominate the OP for how not to start at NWF based on the second post? The two together read like, "I've been kicked off every other forum, let's try this one."

My reply is for those here that are maybe newer to firearms and interested in perspectives, like the dozen good ones that come before. Kudos to @titsonritz for his well thought out point by point thoughts.

Trigger pull:
Yes, there are studies that show that certain types of ND's are related to trigger pull weight. I've read them. It's a factor but not the only one. I transitioned from revolvers to DA/SA auto to SA and SF guns. Few people shoot DA/SA guns as well as other types of semiautos. They can also lead to a false sense of security that someone has a "safer gun."

Safeties:
I prefer them. I'm in the minority. And 100% support those who choose not to have them. What I try to provide when I teach or work with new shooters is the "why" and let them decide for themselves. It is safer when reholstering (as is a Glock with a disconnector) and believe there is an argument that they are beneficial when moving on uneven surfaces, that are wet, in the dark (or other challenging conditions that appear).

Teaches no one with a clue (unless you use revolvers of course). See video posted by @titsonritz . Learn the basic non-diagnostic clearance of tap, rack, evaluate. From watching a few hundred in classes and real-world gunfight videos, this will solve most of your problems.

Nearly every malfunction in the "real world" I have seen relates to shooting from a compromised position or one handed shooting, causing a less then optimal grip on the gun and a failure to eject. Pulling the trigger does not fix this and wastes time. I show a video where an officer has this happen to her and because she used a non-diagnostic tap, rack and yes, I still need to be shooting the guy coming at me with a knife, she lived. On the range, most malfunctions are due to unseated magazines. Also needing a tap, rack...not a trigger pull.

So, after over 100 years of fighting handgun development, by dozens of companies, and the collective geniuses of all the designers, the experience of tens of thousands of defensive shootings and input from and untold number of LEO and civilians...nobody has developed the "right" defensive handgun.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, got it.

Between Sig, S&W, Springfield, Glock, Ruger, Kimber, 1911's, and many others, we have a Cheese Cake Factory menu of options. With safety, without safety, 5", 4", 3" and everything in between, Iron or OR, Ambi controls or not, plastic, steel or aluminum, blue/black/stainless. thick/thin, 6-21 round mags.

Yet none of these measure up to be a good defensive handgun?


Agree. But sorry, from your first post, this does not appear to be a consistent statement.

You have plenty of folks on this forum that can match or trump you CV. There are many others here that have fantastic insight in many areas and sage wisdom that we can all learn from. I do constantly on this forum. They just don't jump into a thread, unzip and bang it against the wall on each side to show how much bigger and smarter that all of us they are. It's too bad you didn't start off where could have benefited from this.
After re-reading the original post, I noticed that the OP is likely LEO, and based on 10k rounds per year, OP is not likely a local LEO.

That said, LEOs are taught the very things in the OP, for example, NY has a horrendously heavy trigger on the issued Glocks.


Food for thought.
 
After re-reading the original post, I noticed that the OP is likely LEO, and based on 10k rounds per year, OP is not likely a local LEO.

That says, LEOs are taught the very things in the OP, for example, NY has a horrendously heavy trigger on the issued Glocks.


Food for thought.
My department transitioned from revolvers to DA/SA S&W 5904's with this in mind. The NY trigger in Glocks is another example yes. (My department did something similar when they allowed Glocks.) There are also studies to show that less experienced shooters suck with heavy triggers (okay, the reports might not say suck but they don't shoot as well). I get the concept but (hopefully) our training methods have improved.

Good training is important. Perfect practice is important as is trigger finger discipline, use of a safety (if you are in this camp) and learning to make good shots with the trigger you have.

Your food for thought is very tasty. Thank you for sharing those points!
 
Opinions are like **sholes... everybody has one.

But problems come when one person decides THEIR opinion is the only correct one.

I don't care how many years somebody has been doing something, even professionally, if what they have been doing is wrong.

The LEO world is not the civilian EDC world.

I don't care how perfect somebody's ideas of a pistol are if what they recommend is unworkable for me.

ROFLMAO
 
Opinions are like "a**hole"; every forum has several.

Ya'll like that better???

:s0066:
Well that doesn't make sense either. If "opinions are like ***holes, because everybody has one", then it doesn't make sense to use the plural form of ***hole. Whereas, if one is to utilize the singular of ***hole, then that doesn't make sense either. I think you're up a **** Creek.
 
or just keep you booger hook of the trigger until you want a bang.


There is a lot of stupid nonsense spewed in the gun/defensive world, this is one of the more stupid ones. If I get a click instead of a bang the last thing I'm doing is the same thing that just failed me, I'm not going to pull the trigger again I'm going to tap and rack with purpose and get back to work. It works across the board with SA autos, DA/SA autos, DAO autos and striker-fired autos, basically all of them. This stuff isn't rocket surgery, don't complicate it.



I am left-hand and managed to get by with Gen 3 Glock for years and can competently use them with either hand.


In direct conflict your "second strike" criterion, but whatever. Its real simple, always draw with purpose and holster with reluctance.


No thanks, but if you want a classic Sig go for it but that would blow you ambi requirement. I will say the Beretta coming out with the updated G type is one of the smartest thing they could have done with their 92 series.


By the nature of the design all double stack mag pistols have this feature as they have a large mag hole and are insert a single feed mag into it.


Shove your manual safety nonsense, passive safeties are all that is needed. Feel free to fumble your safety to your hearts content but the ONLY manual safety I'll have on a pistol will be a 1911/2011.


Maybe you should broaden your horizons. :s0092:


:rolleyes: Whatever.


Covered this one above.


Again do what you want, I'll take either over a DA/SA as I prefer a consistent trigger pull every time.
Ditto what he said!
Been carrying a firearm 35+ years, and NEVER had any issues with any ot the things the OP wants!
Weather I carry one of my favored Snakes, or the 1911/2011's or Redhawk or the Old Army, I got it all covered nicely! The point is, people have been carrying for decades and there was never any of all that nonsense, we just carried whatever we chose/could afford, and that was that! We trained with our chosen piece until we were good enough, and could trust it and it's ammo to serve our needs! Folks been carrying the 1911 pistols for over 100 years, you don't get that kind of history by being a poor choice, or an unsafe design! And forget all that fancy schmancy stuff, i'll take my manual safety and grip safety all day, every day thank you very much!
 
Well that doesn't make sense either. If "opinions are like ***holes, because everybody has one", then it doesn't make sense to use the plural form of ***hole. Whereas, if one is to utilize the singular of ***hole, then that doesn't make sense either. I think you're up a **** Creek.
That's hilarious. I don't remember putting the word "because" in my statement.

Yes, you add words to it, and a comma, and it no longer makes any sense.

"A**holes is the DO of "opinions", that is why they are both plural.

There is no comma between the two statements, they are linked but separate thoughts/ideas.

"Everybody has one" is an expanding statement, not an explanatory statement after a comma. Therefore it is not linked to the plurality of the first. PROPER English would have two linked (but separate) ideas separated by a semicolon, but the "..." does the same thing and is just the way I write.

Get over it Karen. It's become teejus. :s0013:
 
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