How Did We Ever Kill Anything?

[No_Regerts]

I was looking for some .458 bullets today and overheard a couple guys yacking about how he needs high BC bullets, at least .625, and SD of .29 or better for his elk rifle. His buddy asked why and the guy says they shoot flatter and penetrate better.

I started to wonder how my bullets don't just bounce off or make 90 degree turns in full value 10kt winds. My favorite elk bullets have the BC of a racquet ball. The .308 180gr Partition, .338 250gr Partition, and the Speer .458 350gr come to mind. I looked it up, that .458 bullet has a BC of of .232.

I'm sure there are efficiency benefits, but at what point is it measurably "better"?

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[Connor Murphy]

A racquet ball? You slay me.

 

[Certaindeaf]

A racquet ball? You slay me.

The way we kill/slay things these days is with humor.

lol

 

[Stomper]

I kill things with my mind.... artillery helps.... a lot.

 

[Connor Murphy]

The way we kill/slay things these days is with humor.

lol

It certainly isn't with kindness. At least not anymore.

 

[orygun]

"We" used to kill things because we got out and got close.
Honestly, I suck as a hunter but the farthest shot I've ever made on a game animal probably wasn't 75 yards, and that was in eastern Oregon over by Baker where most people would think it's going to be a long shot. The closest shot? 20 yards at a Blacktail.
I did have an opportunity at a elk spike at about 200 that I would have been super comfortable taking, but when you're stupid and leave your binoculars behind it's very hard to see those short spikes behind his ears....

Long range shooting and unfortunately (for the most part) hunting is all the rage. Bullets, guns, cartridges and scopes on the market now are certainly reflecting that. Most of us get caught up it it to a certain degree. I carry a bolt action with a 3-9x40 scope. Last year my fleeting opportunity vanished before I could flip open scope covers (one with each thumb. rehearsed), flip off the safety and bring the gun to bear. IF I'd just have been packing my 30-30 I would have thumbed the hammer back on the way up and taken the shot when the sights aligned. Chit!

By the way, my 06-AI shoots a 180gr Sierra GameKing with a BC of slightly better than .500 at 2900fps. This is treading on the heels of the 300 Win Mag. I've shot paper at 400 yards and have done pretty well, but that's a damn long way to be trying to kill an animal. At least for me it is.

 

[Connor Murphy]

I kill things with my mind.... artillery helps.... a lot.

Dang...if ya happen to run across a snarky comment or two from a basically lovable Irishman, be thinking happy thoughts. Please.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

used to kill a lot of stuff with remington corelokts.

 

[orygun]

used to kill a lot of stuff with remington corelokts.

That's what I used before I started handloading and is still one of my favorites. A lot of people trash talk it, but it has been some of the most consistent and accurate ammo I've used. I don't load for my wife's 7mm-08. She doesn't shoot much and it isn't easy tailoring a healthy load to a short barrel. In fact, when I tested a few of my loads against Remington Core-Lokts, I decided my time was best used elsewhere. (I gave up!) It's the same thing with her .243. Kinda hard to beat that green and yellow box.

 

[Squidly]

It certainly isn't with kindness. At least not anymore.

Killing with kindness still works. It's not used much any more, so it really throws people off when you do use it.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

That's what I used before I started handloading and is still one of my favorites. A lot of people trash talk it, but it has been some of the most consistent and accurate ammo I've used. I don't load for my wife's 7mm-08. She doesn't shoot much and it isn't easy tailoring a healthy load to a short barrel. In fact, when I tested a few of my loads against Remington Core-Lokts, I decided my time was best used elsewhere. (I gave up!) It's the same thing with her .243. Kinda hard to beat that green and yellow box.

ever pulled apart a whole box of corelokts? very consistant powder charge. different COL due to the shape of the bullet but yes very consistant. if those bullets had a BT they would be money.

 

[No_Regerts]

I'm not an anti long-range hunter. I know some guys who are great shooters and have the knowledge and ability to make clean kills at distances that are double my effective range.

I just get irritated at the shake and bake "long range shooters" who watched a TV show of somone off the street, usually a kid or old disabled guy, being sat behind a $5000 rig with some other guy turning the knobs. Then the kid/old guy pulls the trigger and "makes" a shot at 600+ yards. If you just buy that scope/rifle/cartridge-that-does-nothing-that-hasn't-been-done-already, you can do it too!

Or, be like the guys I saw at the store who will buy high BC bullets and then look confused at the range because they can't zero their Wal-Mart special rifle equipped with see-through scope rings.

 

[No_Regerts]

Killing with kindness still works. It's not used much any more, so it really throws people off when you do use it.

Ha! So rare that people think you're being a smart-azz.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

if i see a once in a lifetime buck deer or bull elk, i'll dial up my scope. my rifles are doped to 650yrd. ideally, i like to shoot 100yrd and in. my largest buck was 80 yards. my furthest was 250 without the ability to get closer in a timely manner.

my brother is a freak. he heart shot a running buck at 375 off hand with my 300wm.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

I was looking for some .458 bullets today and overheard a couple guys yacking about how he needs high BC bullets, at least .625, and SD of .29 or better for his elk rifle. His buddy asked why and the guy says they shoot flatter and penetrate better.

I started to wonder how my bullets don't just bounce off or make 90 degree turns in full value 10kt winds. My favorite elk bullets have the BC of a racquet ball. The .308 180gr Partition, .338 250gr Partition, and the Speer .458 350gr come to mind. I looked it up, that .458 bullet has a BC of of .232.

I'm sure there are efficiency benefits, but at what point is it measurably "better"?

These new "hunters" are the ones that fling lead and don't care who or what gets in their way too. Reminds me of an elk hunt a couple years ago. Witnessed a truck load of guys fly out of the back of a pickup and start shooting at a herd of about 30 elk. They dropped 4 bulls and wounded who knows how many more in the process. They did not care who or what was in the woods that they could have possible killed with their stray bullets. My elk hunting partner and I were in that general direction and we had to duck behind trees and take cover. There are weird people out there, who know's why they do or say the things they do. What I do know is the long range comando's who think they need a .625 minimum bc pill to kill things (end up making bad shots and wounding critters) or the ones that open fire on a herd of elk without regard for anything, give the rest of us a bad name. I often wonder how many hunters out there even take a hunter's safety course anymore? What happened to being ethical, aware of your backstop, or even a good marksman? Don't get me started on my story above. My elk hunting partner had to literally pull me back, because back in the good ol days, you could whip someone azz for something like that. Not anymore, you'll end up getting shot or thrown in jail... Times they are a changing my friend..

 

[No_Regerts]

The way we kill/slay things these days is with humor.

lol

Until they ban that too.

Oh, wait, they already have. Just about anything I come up to say would get me fired.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

used to kill a lot of stuff with remington corelokts.

Me too. Mainly jackrabbits in Nevada..

 

[No_Regerts]

These new "hunters" are the ones that fling lead and don't care who or what gets in their way too. Reminds me of an elk hunt a couple years ago. Witnessed a truck load of guys fly out of the back of a pickup and start shooting at a herd of about 30 elk. They dropped 4 bulls and wounded who knows how many more in the process. They did not care who or what was in the woods that they could have possible killed with their stray bullets. My elk hunting partner and I were in that general direction and we had to duck behind trees and take cover. There are weird people out there, who know's why they do or say the things they do. What I do know is the long range comando's who think they need a .625 minimum bc pill to kill things (end up making bad shots and wounding critters) or the ones that open fire on a herd of elk without regard for anything, give the rest of us a bad name. I often wonder how many hunters out there even take a hunter's safety course anymore? What happened to being ethical, aware of your backstop, or even a good marksman? Times they are a changing my friend..

Amen! The problem is that the companies are feeding the fad. I went on Nosler's website and over half of the bullets had some sort of "long range" or "low drag".

But whats odd is the fad in rifles is almost the opposite. I remember seeing the first rifle with a plastic trigger guard and think "who'd buy that"? A cheap rifle back then was a 700 ADL that still had a decent finish (pre-SPS). An M70 classic cost $675.

Now, companies like Kimber can put out $850 rifles with plastic trigger guards and magazines.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Me too. Mainly jackrabbits in Nevada..

lol just a red mist

 

[bsa1917hunter]

lol just a red mist

Was it that obvious that I was using a 30-06?