Guy gets owned on united flight for not leaving the plane

[ZigZagZeke]

See the net for MULTIPLE examples of this happening. This IS NOT even close to the first time this has happened. He can certainly hire a bottom feeder and try to sue. I know a lot of people "think" this is unfair and all. I agree it sucks. You are dealing with Federal law. Good luck getting it tossed out any time soon.

This is also federal law:

Uniform Commercial Code › U.C.C. - ARTICLE 2 - SALES (2002) › PART 3. GENERAL OBLIGATION AND CONSTRUCTION OF CONTRACT
§ 2-302. Unconscionable contract or Clause.
(1) If the court as a matter of law finds the contract or any clause of the contract to have been unconscionable at the time it was made the court may refuse to enforce the contract, or it may enforce the remainder of the contract without the unconscionable clause, or it may so limit the application of any unconscionable clause as to avoid any unconscionable result.

(2) When it is claimed, or appears to the court that the contract or any clause thereof may be unconscionable the parties shall be afforded a reasonable opportunity to present evidence as to its commercial setting, purpose and effect to aid the court in making the determination.

• Congress has enacted the UCC. UCC 2-302 provides that the court may refuse to enforce a contract which it finds to be unconscionable at the time it was made.
• When a party of little bargaining power, and hence little real choice, signs a commercially unreasonable contract with little or no knowledge of its terms, it is hardly likely that consent was ever given to all the terms.

Now, you may not like lawyers, or people who stand up for their rights and yours in court, but that's the law.

 

[WWShooter]

I see United standing on its contractual rights in this case like the pedestrian who steps into a crosswalk with a car speeding down on them at about 60 mph - sure they have the right, but that's not entirely what it's about. The news tickers say that United has lost $250M in stock value today; sure that will rebound, but will it rebound back to where they otherwise would have been? I doubt it. United was trying to expand in China - this isn't going to help.

What I mostly see is the extreme arrogance of a large corporation in dealing with its customers. United is hardly the only corporation to treat its customers with contempt, but I'm a little surprised that members here are so willing to defend that posture. It's time that all of our institutions - corporate and governmental - remembered who the real party in interest is - you and me.

 

[wired]

No laws need to change. This incident will force change in favor of the paying passenger without any change in regulation at United or it will force them to lose money until they decide to very publicly change. It may even completely kill their Chinese arm of the business and they are around 1/3 of the Chinese international market. The Chinese are always looking for an excuse to scapegoat US companies. The guy wasnt even Chinese but they are already pulling the yellow race card and calling for a boycott of United..

 

[CoastRange57]

The quack had multiple felony convictions for drug dealing and possession, lost his medical license, got it back under restriction, can only practice internal medicine one day a week under supervision. Traded drugs for sex, all kinds of great upstanding behaviors you expect out of medical professionals.

I knew of a Dr who had a great practice, rolling in the dough, trophy wife, but he like the blow a bit to much. Did his asz in, selling life insurance now.

 

[clearconscience]

I wonder if they would have used such force for another ethnicity screaming BLM.

Either way arguing about what they did is irrelavent. Would this stop me from flying united? No.
And for most people they won't change anything either. They will be appalled, they will post on FB about how horrible UA is, but when they buy their next ticket they will look at price and availability and they will book it.
Just like the ever offended snowflakes crying foul on the flight, they won't leave or gice up their seats.

The stock will drop and go right back up.

They have the power of the FAA allowing them to do anything and everything they want for flying the friendly skies.

 

[CoastRange57]

The news tickers say that United has lost $250M in stock value today; sure that will rebound, but will it rebound back to where they otherwise would have been? I doubt it. United was trying to expand in China - this isn't going to help.

The news tickers, who or whatever they are are clueless. UAL has a market cap of 22 billion. They traded 17 million shares today well above the 3.8 million daily average. The one year return is 27%. PE ratio of 10.2. Like a lot of airline stocks very undervalued. Not seeing where they lost 250 million at all. In fact a lot of people got in today and UAL got a bunch of cash.

The market and investors usually care less about press coverages like this. All they want is returns. The beat down of some quack loud mouth felon is going to have exactly zero impact on the future of UAL. In fact it probably helped the investment side a lot. Some of the instution's unloaded and took profits and marginal investors got in for a one year ride. If I was not in Alaska who is preforming much better than UAL, I would get in as well.

United Continental Holdings Inc.

 

[WWShooter]

The news tickers, who or whatever they are are clueless. UAL has a market cap of 22 billion. They traded 17 million shares today well above the 3.8 million daily average. The one year return is 27%. PE ratio of 10.2. Like a lot of airline stocks very undervalued. Not seeing where they lost 250 million at all. In fact a lot of people got in today and UAL got a bunch of cash.

The market and investors usually care less about press coverages like this. All they want is returns. The beat down of some quack loud mouth felon is going to have exactly zero impact on the future of UAL. In fact it probably helped the investment side a lot. Some of the instution's unloaded and took profits and marginal investors got in for a one year ride. If I was not in Alaska who is preforming much better than UAL, I would get in as well.

United Continental Holdings Inc.

Dream on. If China thinks this was ethnically motivated (as they apparently do) this won't help United's bottom line. I guess the market will decide your values, for me it goes beyond ROI.

 

[Alexx1401]

This is also federal law:

Uniform Commercial Code › U.C.C. - ARTICLE 2 - SALES (2002) › PART 3. GENERAL OBLIGATION AND CONSTRUCTION OF CONTRACT
§ 2-302. Unconscionable contract or Clause.
(1) If the court as a matter of law finds the contract or any clause of the contract to have been unconscionable at the time it was made the court may refuse to enforce the contract, or it may enforce the remainder of the contract without the unconscionable clause, or it may so limit the application of any unconscionable clause as to avoid any unconscionable result.

(2) When it is claimed, or appears to the court that the contract or any clause thereof may be unconscionable the parties shall be afforded a reasonable opportunity to present evidence as to its commercial setting, purpose and effect to aid the court in making the determination.

• Congress has enacted the UCC. UCC 2-302 provides that the court may refuse to enforce a contract which it finds to be unconscionable at the time it was made.
• When a party of little bargaining power, and hence little real choice, signs a commercially unreasonable contract with little or no knowledge of its terms, it is hardly likely that consent was ever given to all the terms.

Now, you may not like lawyers, or people who stand up for their rights and yours in court, but that's the law.

Great, stand at any busy airport and tell all the unhappy people you have the answer and they can all sue and win. You will get rich and the airlines will have to change. Wonder why no one else thought of this.

 

[L84Cabo]

They exchanged a ticket for a sum of money. That is a contract and he IS entitled to a seat. I hope he sues the hell out of them. United has always sucked, even back in the days when I was flying in uniform and treated like a dog.

Negative Ghost Rider!

You are correct that the good doctor entered into a contract when he bought his ticket. The actual name for this is called "Contract of Carriage" and every airline has one. Whether you know it or not, when you buy a ticket, you fall under that airline's Contract of Carriage. Your purchase of the ticket means you agree to THEIR terms...not yours or what you THINK is fair and just. If you don't like the terms, then buy a ticket on a different airline. Or take the train.

I obviously am not familiar with every airlines CoC but I'd be willing to bet you that they all have clauses that say they can cancel your reservation and/or boot you off their plane whenever they want. Their may, of course, be additional rules governing what type of compensation you are owed if this occurs. United Airlines likely had every legal right to kick this guy off their plane. What may get UA in trouble, however, is that according the "letter of the law" (UA's CoC), UA is supposed to inform a passenger of their rights in writing when this occurs...which they did not.

Now this isn't to say that the actions that UA took in this situation were not excessive. That will likely be up to a court to decide. All I'm saying is that they had every legal right to cancel this guys reservation and boot him off the plane. I think the odds are pretty good that if this does go to court, regardless of the law, a jury would think that the response was excessive. It's a pretty damning video. Personally, I'll be surprised if UA takes it this far. I would think they would try to settle this as quietly as possible and avoid court all together.

If you're interested in reading UA's CoC you can find it here...

Contract of Carriage Document | United Airlines

 

[Alexx1401]

Negative Ghost Rider!

You are correct that the good doctor entered into a contract when he bought his ticket. The actual name for this is called "Contract of Carriage" and every airline has one. Whether you know it or not, when you buy a ticket, you fall under that airline's Contract of Carriage. Your purchase of the ticket means you agree to THEIR terms...not yours or what you THINK is fair and just. If you don't like the terms, then buy a ticket on a different airline. Or take the train.

I obviously am not familiar with every airlines CoC but I'd be willing to bet you that they all have clauses that say they can cancel your reservation and/or boot you off their plane whenever they want. Their may, of course, be additional rules governing what type of compensation you are owed if this occurs. United Airlines likely had every legal right to kick this guy off their plane. What may get UA in trouble, however, is that according the "letter of the law" (UA's CoC), UA is supposed to inform a passenger of their rights in writing when this occurs...which they did not.

Now this isn't to say that the actions that UA took in this situation were not excessive. That will likely be up to a court to decide. All I'm saying is that they had every legal right to cancel this guys reservation and boot him off the plane. I think the odds are pretty good that if this does go to court, regardless of the law, a jury would think that the response was excessive. It's a pretty damning video. Personally, I'll be surprised if UA takes it this far. I would think they would try to settle this as quietly as possible and avoid court all together.

If you're interested in reading UA's CoC you can find it here...

Contract of Carriage Document | United Airlines

This is another of those things were many don't want to know how it works. They think it sounds like it just can't be that way so they carefully avoid looking at the facts. This is actually just going to end up making this kind of thing worse. The airline is now doing some heavy duty walking back of what they originally said. The reasons are multiple. A lot of it is all the press this got. The press of course never shows how he was taken off then ran back on the plane acting like a kook. The bottom line is this (over booking) is not going to stop. The airline is now no doubt wishing they had just kept upping the offer to get the 4 volunteers they needed. If they had doubled the "final offer" no doubt some would have jumped on it and no one would have heard about this. Now it's going to cost them a LOT more. The real problem here is this is going to cause a lot more of this. Many will go out of their way to make scene on flights now hoping for a pay out. The losers are the rest of the people on the plane who will miss connections because someone decided to have a temper tantrum on the plane. Flying commercial really sucks these days and this is just going to make it worse not better.

 

[Mikej]

Maybe I missed it, but how did they pick this guy to be taken off the plane AFTER he boarded and sat down? And, once they saw how bad of a reaction they were getting from Dao , maybe they should have turned to someone else to throw off the plane? Perhaps a little old man/lady? Younger person? Mother and child?

I haven't flown, on an airplane, since about 1975. Looking at those videos, not sure I ever will again. Can't believe how people can let them pack you in those narrow seats, looking at the back of someones head just a couple feet in front, jammed up tight to dirty smelly people you don't know!

 

[wired]

They said they picked him off the list their computer generated. They were following orders because we all have to follow orders right? Its called the Nuremberg defense.

To be fair this was an over reaction by the security people who were following orders from the gate. While the culture was set in place by United upper management even they would have said whoa had they known that security was going to board the plane and drag the guy unconscious and bleeding off the plane in front of a plane load of camera carrying tourists so they could put an extra flight crew on the plane

Yes, flying sucks.

 

[Mikej]

They said they picked him off the list their computer generated. They were following orders because we all have to follow orders right? Its called the Nuremberg defense.

To be fair this was an over reaction by the security people who were following orders from the gate. While the culture was set in place by United upper management even they would have said whoa had they known that security was going to board the plane and drag the guy unconscious and bleeding off the plane in front of a plane load of camera carrying tourists so they could put an extra flight crew on the plane

Yes, flying sucks.

So the way I see it, basically what happened is the security guys were treating adult humans beings like animals, children or both. You don't want children get the best of you or they will be running the house instead of the adults. You have lines that when crossed have consequences. Same with animals, you need to be firm in your training, or you will have poor behaving pets.

Good going United Airlines!

 

[wired]

And you can do that and be completely in the right as long as you don't expect anyone to ever fly with your company again.

 

[albin25]

Not even getting into who's allowed to legally do what to whom, or who's right or wrong, or even the optics of dragging a guy from his seat and off the plane... what would he be thinking would be the inevitable outcome of his actions.? Others when met with the same request had given up their seats (unhappily in sure) without injury, loud protest, or violence.
The moment that a request for him to disembark by flight crew for any reason became more than conversational, the outcome was as predictable as night following day.
The officers motivation is known, remove a non-cooperative passenger by escorting or force as needed. He wouldn't stop prodding the bull...
...so he got the horns.
The passenger's motivations are less clear. A planned protest of unfair Airline policies would show intent to cause trouble on a commercial airliner. To let them know they should choose a less important person by squealing and yelling like a spoiled toddler? Was he nutz enough to think his new Chicago OxyContin connection was really an informant and they were there to take away his Doctors license (again) before they handed him over to that "Justified" guy? Was this a desperate but clever attempt to make sure his wife wouldn't ever again want to sit beside him?

The only thing we can be sure of is, this was kinda like the William Shatner "Gremlin" episode of "Twilight Zone".....only BACKWARDS!

 

[Ura-Ki]

 

[wired]

 

[ZigZagZeke]

This is another of those things were many don't want to know how it works. They think it sounds like it just can't be that way so they carefully avoid looking at the facts. This is actually just going to end up making this kind of thing worse. The airline is now doing some heavy duty walking back of what they originally said. The reasons are multiple. A lot of it is all the press this got. The press of course never shows how he was taken off then ran back on the plane acting like a kook. The bottom line is this (over booking) is not going to stop. The airline is now no doubt wishing they had just kept upping the offer to get the 4 volunteers they needed. If they had doubled the "final offer" no doubt some would have jumped on it and no one would have heard about this. Now it's going to cost them a LOT more. The real problem here is this is going to cause a lot more of this. Many will go out of their way to make scene on flights now hoping for a pay out. The losers are the rest of the people on the plane who will miss connections because someone decided to have a temper tantrum on the plane. Flying commercial really sucks these days and this is just going to make it worse not better.

I've been to law school. I know EXACTLY how it works. I have read the case law in several instances where patently unfair contracts have been voided by the courts. You can't sign away your privacy rights or your safety to a landlord in a lease and have it stand up in court. You can't absolve a promoter of a sporting event of any liability to you by buying a ticket to an event. You can't "agree" that if you miss a payment Sears can repossess everything you ever bought from them on credit (because according to the contract NOTHING on your revolving charge account is paid off until EVERYTHING is paid off). I'd look up the case law for you, but my time's more valuable than that. There are dozens of cases out there where somebody did stand up and take the corporations to court. It's attitudes like I find here that the "big boy" is always right that discourage people from doing so. I find it particularly ironic that this attitude is so prevalent on a site concerned with gun rights. Sounds like many here would be the first to find an excuse to roll over and accept things like the recent egregious gun transfer legislation in WA and OR because "that's the law".

 

[Alexx1401]

Maybe I missed it, but how did they pick this guy to be taken off the plane AFTER he boarded and sat down? And, once they saw how bad of a reaction they were getting from Dao , maybe they should have turned to someone else to throw off the plane? Perhaps a little old man/lady? Younger person? Mother and child?

I haven't flown, on an airplane, since about 1975. Looking at those videos, not sure I ever will again. Can't believe how people can let them pack you in those narrow seats, looking at the back of someones head just a couple feet in front, jammed up tight to dirty smelly people you don't know!

They made a couple offers, cash and flights. They said if no one takes we will have a lotto. 4 losers will have to get off. He was one of the losers. He was taken off and all was fine. He then decided to run past workers and onto the plane. After that there was no going back.

 

[Alexx1401]

I've been to law school. I know EXACTLY how it works. .

Since you know more than all in the world why are you not setting up shop? This has been going on for decades. You would be sitting on a mountain of money and all the other lawyers who don't know what you know would be slapping their heads. Wondering why only you knew this