Guy gets owned on united flight for not leaving the plane

[wired]

Airline rules are made by the airline and can be re-made by the airline when they get too full of themselves and forget who their paying customers are. Airline rules are not laws. They can become bogged down by stupidity over time and occasionally the airlines need a wakeup call to remind them who is paying their bills. This guy, while maybe not the poster child for physicians ethics, is the Rosa Parks of the unfriendly skies.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

No one owes you anything. You're not special.

Your only right is to choose not to be a customer. The rules and laws shouldn't bend around your petty feelings.

Complete BS!

This pretty much sums it up for me...

Jim Mathews:
"As a guy who was Editor-in-Chief of Aviation Daily (the airline business daily) for eight years, a lot of my friends have asked for my 'take' on the brutal take-down video of a United passenger in Chicago.

"Before I give you that perspective, however, I think it's illuminating to see how many people are looking for airline-related expertise to discuss this issue at all.

"As if there's some magic, aviation-related secret rule that makes brutality against paying customers OK.

"But if you insist, yes first off, this is a 'thing.' It's called Involuntary Denied Boarding and back in the day when we all used paper tickets instead of QR codes on smart phones, it was there on the back of the ticket stock in the fine print we would all read out of sheer boredom waiting to taxi. In extraordinary circumstances, the airline can deny you boarding, for compensation. Today by federal law that compensation is limited to $1,350…which United's Chicago folks evidently never even got to before calling the airport police.

"Whether in one-on-one interactions or in conflicts involving nations, there are always decision points in which one or both parties can choose to escalate or de-escalate. United had options which it simply did not pursue, choosing instead to jump the decision tree to the very end and endorse violent removal of a passenger because, in Oscar Munoz's words, he 'raised his voice and refused to comply with crewmember directions.'

"Even without assessing the validity of that passenger's story (more on that in a minute) the most troubling thing to me about this entire interaction is the endorsement of violent solutions to everyday problems.

"So, he raised his voice. Everyone reading this post has raised his or her voice at some time. He was angry…justifiably so, since he had paid his fare and was seated in his assigned seat.

"But let's pretend for the sake of discussion that he was not justified in being angry; he was just a 69-year-old man just trying to get home. At worst, he was a nuisance, not a threat.

"And this is where United went the most wrong.

"We're told that United overbooked the flight (a somewhat common occurrence) and that they had to get a flight crew on that airplane to avoid cancelling yet another flight in another location (less common, but still happens). Given these facts, this passenger's predicament effectively was created by United overbooking and fouling up its dispatching and crew-scheduling.

"Airlines have tools in these situations. They can continue to offer higher compensation until someone bites: I'm sure someone would have gone for $1,350 – they stopped the bidding 41% short of where they were capped. They could have sought help from other airlines, who routinely accommodate in these kinds of situations as a kind of "treaty" among professionals. Or, they even might have decided to eat the $30K - $40K they might have had to absorb to cancel the flight to which the crew was headed. A lot of money, to be sure, but mistakes cost businesses money every day.

"Instead, impatience with a nuisance led the personnel on site to jump straight to police involvement for a passenger who was noisy, adamant but not violent or armed…and in point of fact, had every right to be irate.

"Once the airport police were called, we saw a replay of the 'Comply or Die' dynamic that has been sadly repeated thousands of times each year in this country when citizens interact with police. Instead of talking the man down, explaining that he was legally required at that point to leave the aircraft, and taking the time – yes, that precious 'time is money' time – to de-escalate this situation appropriately, the officer went straight to violence. On a 69-year-old man. Who paid his fare. And was not armed.

"The penalty now for raising your voice is assault. Good to know.

"The reaction I find most puzzling is from my friends who say things like 'well, that's the law. He should have complied with the instruction.' As if the existence of that law justifies ANY level of retaliation of the officer's choosing, in proportion or out of proportion. It's not a lot different from 'well, she dressed provocatively, what did she expect?' I don't think anyone who is A) not brandishing a weapon, B) not physically attacking anyone and C) has paid a fare and been assigned a seat ought to 'expect' to get bloodied and beaten for protesting shoddy treatment as a customer.

"As I said elsewhere on the Intertubes this morning, I spent 13 years on the street as a first responder…but as a firefighter/medic I didn't get to tase or punch patients who gave me a hard time. If I truly felt threatened I could get on the radio and ask for help, which we only had to do once or twice, when we were taking care of kids who had their hands cut off by MS-13 gangbangers. MS-13 doesn't take kindly to us fixing their handiwork.

"I had plenty of belligerent, drunk or drug-addled patients, some of whom took a swing at me, but what we learned in the Fire Academy and on the street was how to talk people down and de-escalate situations.

"Today we're in a world where it's OK for officers to show up at a home in Pierre, SD, and tase an eight-year old girl for having a tantrum. You really want my take? If you're a cop, sometimes people resist arrest. You have a gun, a taser, a plate-carrier vest and a badge and training in combatives. A snotty screaming person is a nuisance, not a threat.

"And Oscar M.? Companies live their values through the actions of their front-line employees. Faced with the choice of a $40K cost – which United imposed on itself by screwing up – or endorsing the violent assault of an angry but otherwise innocent paying customer, United chose violence. Strictly business, you might say. Well, given what's happened to United's stock this morning, and the thousands of people – including those with frequent-flyer status – who have told United to go pound sand, maybe violence was the wrong business choice?

"The real issue is not United; this is a symptom of what we have become as a people. We have accepted the notion that any transgression or infraction, no matter how trivial, legitimately subjects the transgressor to the threat of violence or even death. United has thrown its lot in with that crowd. I will not participate."

 

[HuckleberryFun]

Any one who went through the Bataan death march would probably kick your teeth in for associating that event with some dumb self entitled shet wagon getting just as he should have. Don't listen, you get treated like the child you should.

You guys sound like all the arrogant entitled BLM crowd.

Presuming to speak for Bataan Death March survivors (are there some still alive??) isn't self entitled?
How do you know what they might or might not say?
That guy stood up against being treated like crap. (OK, he never actually stood up...)
You are equally free to meekly take all the crap you choose. That's your right.

 

[Cameron72]

I know it's against the carriage contract but if I were seated in the plane and needed to get wherever, I would resist too. I don't fly much but if I do it won't be UA.

So being re-accommodated after sitting in your seat is illegal. I would be resisting an illegal act. That would make my nose and mouth feel better.

Boycott United Airlines!

 

[Aero Denezol]

The airplane is a special circumstance and deserves everyone's respect. The most important thing on an airplane is safety, period. That's why we wait in those egregious lines and go through naked body scans and endure all manner of other indignities. That's why there are plainclothes armed men on airplanes. Causing a disturbance on an airplane is putting everyone in danger. If the crew of an airplane asks you to do something, then do it, very simple. If you feel you are wronged, call your lawyer and have them contact the airline, or, use a different airline in the future.

Airlines have been double booking seats as long as I've been flying, which is over 30 years. Nothing to look at here. This guy did not discover penicillin or the headwaters of the Amazon, and he sure as hell is no Rosa Parks. He is a jerk who is using the power of social media to unjustly enrich himself.

 

[wired]

He was a guy sitting in a seat that he paid for. Thats all. Then the airline decided to rough him up in front of a full airplane full of passengers because he refused to surrender his seat . In the end the airline had to cancel that flight so they gained nothing and lost a lot. I doubt he's going to get much for compensatory damages out of this but I hope he gets something. What we will all get is a better flying experience. As has been noted this was not a case of double booking at all. This was a last minute airline decision to bump paying passengers off the already boarded plane to put their employees on. I'm sure it happens all the time. This time they got called on it. That is something United at leas will think twice about doing again and thats what the airlines need. They need to think about the consequences of their actions at every level. Or they can do things the same way and get pounded by the people who pay their bills.

 

[HuckleberryFun]

The airplane is a special circumstance and deserves everyone's respect. The most important thing on an airplane is safety, period. That's why we wait in those egregious lines and go through naked body scans and endure all manner of other indignities. That's why there are plainclothes armed men on airplanes. Causing a disturbance on an airplane is putting everyone in danger. If the crew of an airplane asks you to do something, then do it, very simple. If you feel you are wronged, call your lawyer and have them contact the airline, or, use a different airline in the future.

Airlines have been double booking seats as long as I've been flying, which is over 30 years. Nothing to look at here. This guy did not discover penicillin or the headwaters of the Amazon, and he sure as hell is no Rosa Parks. He is a jerk who is using the power of social media to unjustly enrich himself.

Ah yes, the old "For Your Protection" claim that provides fig leaf cover for all sorts of bad behavior.
If Jerks are to be beaten for being annoying then we are all due for a good thrashing.

 

[Martini_Up]

Yeah they bumped them so the crew could get to their next flights.

Like I said it's stupid, the policy sucks, but still it's their business they can do what they want with their business.

No, they can't do whatever they want. In the real world there are rights and privileges and contracts and the rule of law. Whatever you want does't fit in there.

 

[albin25]

I can hardly wait for the next big airline PR screw up when somebody decides that putting their tray-table up doesn't really affect the aircrafts function or endanger others and decides to challenge the order. Followed soon after by "intense, eye-watering, crop killing, abortion inducing, B.O. guy" fighting for his right to stay.(ok, I know the preceding was perhaps an exaggeration... but you get my drift)

Thanks United, for making removal of a passenger for any reason almost impossible going forward from now on.

Thanks TSA, for searching for, and removing, any good-will, or cooperative feelings from passengers prior to boarding. Replacing the joy of travel with a feeling of dread, uneasy security and a desperate clutch on the tiny shreds of self-respect, good-will, and humanity remaining in our crushed souls.

Thanks FAA, for allowing ridiculous amounts of over-booking and airliners to be so increasingly tight and over-crowded that passengers and crew become feral. For also allowing huge fees to be charged for even a single checked bag and turning the passenger spaces into over-stuffed closets.

 

[HuckleberryFun]

I can hardly wait for the next big airline PR screw up when somebody decides that putting their tray-table up doesn't really affect the aircrafts function or endanger others and decides to challenge the order. Followed soon after by "intense, eye-watering, crop killing, abortion inducing, B.O. guy" fighting for his right to stay.(ok, I know the preceding was perhaps an exaggeration... but you get my drift)

Thanks United, for making removal of a passenger for any reason almost impossible going forward from now on.

Thanks TSA, for searching for, and removing, any good-will, or cooperative feelings from passengers prior to boarding. Replacing the joy of travel with a feeling of dread, uneasy security and a desperate clutch on the tiny shreds of self-respect, good-will, and humanity remaining in our crushed souls.

Thanks FAA, for allowing ridiculous amounts of over-booking and airliners to be so increasingly tight and over-crowded that passengers and crew become feral. For also allowing huge fees to be charged for even a single checked bag and turning the passenger spaces into over-stuffed closets.

The "pox on all your houses" argument: I can roll with that one.
I do quibble with there being "a joy of travel," before all this happened. Maybe you found a joyful airline? Tell us!

 

[Ura-Ki]

THIS is why when I have to fly, I use Corporate Jets! I rarely ever fly commercial any more exactly because of this type of crap! Unless I have to travel over seas where a Corp. Flight would not be available, or to expensive, I use this method when ever I can. It does cost a little more, but it sure saves time and head aches! I like getting my moneys worth, and I like being treated like a person instead of sheep, and I like that I can just show up to the general aviation terminal, or even better, Corp. Air Park and fly where I want to go, no fuss, no muss!

 

[RicInOR]

Pattern of behaviour:

United Airlines staff 'forced grandma, 94, out of Business seat into Economy'

United Airlines staff forced a frail 94-year-old grandma to leave her £2,800 Business Class seat and sit in discomfort in Economy, her family have claimed.

Her relatives had all chipped in to buy her a Business class seat with United in the hope of making the 16-hour journey more comfortable.

 

[UserNameInUse]

I can hardly wait for the next big airline PR screw up when somebody decides that putting their tray-table up doesn't really affect the aircrafts function ...

LOL, one time while putting my stuff away my belt caught on the latch that locks the tray table up and broke it off. It was the aisle seat so nobody was allowed to sit in that row. Luckily the flight wasn't full.

 

[etrain16]

THIS is why when I have to fly, I use Corporate Jets! I rarely ever fly commercial any more exactly because of this type of crap! Unless I have to travel over seas where a Corp. Flight would not be available, or to expensive, I use this method when ever I can. It does cost a little more, but it sure saves time and head aches! I like getting my moneys worth, and I like being treated like a person instead of sheep, and I like that I can just show up to the general aviation terminal, or even better, Corp. Air Park and fly where I want to go, no fuss, no muss!

How does that even work? Who do you contact to look for flights and get pricing?

 

[clearconscience]

And in will move the soros backed protesters who will refuse to comply with any and everything their asked and then we have just another shet storm like all the other protests across the nation

 

[parallax]

New United Airlines commercial

 

[clearconscience]

Meme time

 

[Aero Denezol]

People really think this guy is some kind of a hero? There's a time to stand up for yourself, and there is a time to stop being stupid and take the $800 and the free travel voucher. As a physician he should have been concerned about the safety of the pregnant woman sitting behind him. The airplane is not publicly owned, it is a private airplane and they can kick you off whenever they want. Just like your landlord and your boss can get rid of you whenever they want.

 

[Martini_Up]

....The airplane is not publicly owned, it is a private airplane and they can kick you off whenever they want. Just like your landlord and your boss can get rid of you whenever they want.

UAL : Summary for United Continental Holdings - Yahoo Finance

 

[wired]

Yep. They can do whatever they want and so can their ex customers.

I'm excited about this because quite frankly this plays into my small L Libertarian mindset 100%. You own whatever it is you do. That goes for corporations as it does for individuals.