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I wanted to make a thread specifically about gas stations and no power. I'm hoping this doesn't turn into a generator discussion, but if that is literally the only solution, then maybe we can talk about why? I haven't seen any new references online, so I'm just wondering if it's knee-jerk like waiting to throw someone a life jacket after they are already under water? They're waiting for the next big hurricane to realize there's still no legitimate solution for this?

Is there really no other way to get gas/fuel/petrol/etc. out of a gas station without power? I'm not saying generator, I'm saying without power, which means no generator either?

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Our ancestors pumped fluid with only mechanical means for a long time.

If it was really an issue you want do address some kind of a piston pump,lever actuated would be fairly simple rig up
 
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Is the only reason this isn't already an active solution, because people expect that things eventually will get fixed when there's an outage? Or is it because they don't have a way to charge/tax people, or something stupid like that?
 
For over 45 years my old small very good ISO Class One Fire Department had big bolt cutters on every fire apparatus. Also had a handy durable higher quality foot powered suck pump with a long 10 foot suck hose. Cut the lock, unscrew the underground fuel tank cap, drop in the suck hose, use foot action to suck up gas or diesel. Very old solution. We were also authorized to "carry" and to steal the gas stations fuel in the event of a major disaster. Just saying.
 
Interesting, thank you. This definitely gives me something to think about. It seems like the only reason we don't go back to this method in emergency, is that there's nobody to bill/rate/etc. the fuel.

Thanks again! :D
 
This is what I see happening with the general population messing with underground fuel tanks.

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Security would be a bigger concern, than having the ability to obtain the fuel.

You would quite literally be mobbed, unless you were civil authority. Even then, given how we have seen how peaceful folks tend to act in a mob mentality...

What I mean is, if fuel stations have shut down & operators gone towards home, everyone would be stranded also attempting to get the fuel.

If you roll up in a fueled vehicle, even that may prompt folks just to take it, your well being be damned.

Anyways, as other folks mention manual syphon pumps or 12V syphon pump. You can even buy syphon pumps which run off a drill bit (plenty of folks have rechargeable power tools).
 
I spent a number of years delivering and handling fuel products. We had to pump out tanks and put in in the tankers. It is really a pretty safe thing to do, the idea is to keep the fuel completely contained and not exposed to the air. We had either hoses or aluminum pipes that went down in the tanks, You need to keep them about 6 inches off the bottom, you can get water in them, not so much now with the new regulations and double wall tanks.

We used the PTO driven pumps off the trucks, all the fittings were camlocked and all the fuel you ever saw was some when you disconnected the fittings. We could also isolate the truck electrical systems when doing this. We also used transfer pumps, electric powered, although we preferred the PTO no electricity kind. All fittings should be aluminum, must less conducting ability and make sure you and any vehicles are grounded, otherwise static builds up.

We used to top load fuel before bottom loading became the norm. You put the pipe down in the tanker compartment and started flowing and the fill spout stayed under the fuel. You still pushed massive amounts of fumes out the top when loading this way. Everything is now bottom loaded.

Basically you need a bolt cutters, some type of hose to drop in the tank, a transfer pump of some kind and a sealed vessel to put it in. Transportation is always a bit dicey any more. It is illegal to move it in unapproved containers like 55 gallon barrels. We used to do that all the time back in the day. As long as you do not have ignition sources around, you can really handle fuel pretty safely.

I was getting diesel at the Fred Meyer in Redmond last month and some gal comes in and has them fill up a 55 gallon barrel with gas she had strapped to the headache rack of her flatbed. We started to follow her back towards Sisters and I just pulled over and let her get a good mile ahead of me, I did not want to be anywhere near when the azzholes pull out in front of you on all the side roads onto 126 there.
 
Lot's of problems here. Dead simple to have battery or even manual pumps. Each station would have to invest in the tools and the meters to be able to sell this way. Then if no power there may be no internet or cell. So cash only. Then safety. Would need special training to make sure this could be done safely. First accident the lawyers would be all over it. Then you would have to have multiple stations doing this. If it was a couple there would be a MOB scene. So who's going to pay for all this? Since it's seldom a problem for any one area and power comes back, no one want to lay out the capitol to do this.
 
You are probably pretty fire safe even using an electric pump to steal gas station gas from underground fuel tank. But common sense and intelligence usually have a way of going out the window when dealing with a panic mentality.

Kinda like the documented instance where some Bozo actually dropped a lit road flare down an "empty" aforementioned abandoned gas station underground gasoline tank to see if it was in fact empty. Lingering fumes. Sky high!

FWIW we fire guys were supposed to leave an I.O.U. for the estimated amount of product we thugged and tape it someplace where the owner would find it. We also had protocol to radio in to the Comm Center what we "liberated".

And from whom. But back in the day each fire house had an underground fuel tank. A couple had several. Long gone. Smog laws. Now I think, (not sure) they issue credit cards sosss the fire apparatus can just use gas station fuel?

Dunno fur sures. Seems to me recent and current protocols are just designed to screw things up and prevent emergency services from doing their jobs. At least as Fire Departments are concerned. We had so much. Now so little.

We had back in the day a dedicated Fire Department Utility-Fuel Vehicle. Painted a nice Red and White. Had gas, diesel, oil, grease, spare tires, air filters, compressor, gen set, spare parts. A fairly big straight truck. Now long gone.
 
Lot's of problems here. Dead simple to have battery or even manual pumps. Each station would have to invest in the tools and the meters to be able to sell this way. Then if no power there may be no internet or cell. So cash only. Then safety. Would need special training to make sure this could be done safely. First accident the lawyers would be all over it. Then you would have to have multiple stations doing this. If it was a couple there would be a MOB scene. So who's going to pay for all this? Since it's seldom a problem for any one area and power comes back, no one want to lay out the capitol to do this.

I was not getting that it was to sell the fuel to people. If the electricity is out then the station employees has locked it up and left and are at the deli playing video poker. I was more or less thinking it you wanted fuel, you were going to have to roll in there with a liberation crew to get the gas, and then at least a squad level or bigger protection detail to keep everybody away from you while you got what you want and left. Paying for it never entered my mind.
 
I was not getting that it was to sell the fuel to people. If the electricity is out then the station employees has locked it up and left and are at the deli playing video poker. I was more or less thinking it you wanted fuel, you were going to have to roll in there with a liberation crew to get the gas, and then at least a squad level or bigger protection detail to keep everybody away from you while you got what you want and left. Paying for it never entered my mind.

OK, yes you could steal fuel fairly easily. When there is a natural disaster of some kind looters are often not well treated.
 
OK, yes you could steal fuel fairly easily. When there is a natural disaster of some kind looters are often not well treated.

No power, no cards.

I'd imagine a good independent station would think of some way to pump fuel as a cash only, with limits, during an extended outage using methods noted above.

Something like 5 gallons per vehicle. Until there tanks empty.
 
OK, yes you could steal fuel fairly easily. When there is a natural disaster of some kind looters are often not well treated.

Oh, I know. I just looked at it from a must have stand point. The majority of people would not be able to do a grab like that anyway. If you ran into some Korean station owners we know it would not work out well. Most gas stations have 18,000 to, 20,000 gallon tanks and take 5,000 gallon to 10,000 gallon deliveries or split loads. You measure down so that you can get 5,000 in a gravity drop, so most loads were splits but now that most are straight unlead, which is now reffered to as regular, and not unlead.

Most stations are getting 2 loads a day (truck and trailer, about 11,000 gallons total)based upon sales volume. Fuel will be just like groceries, there is probably less than a 24 hour supply in most station tanks at any given time. Fuel deliveries are very time critical and would be greatly affected by infrastruture disruptions. Can't load at the terminal, bridges out, insufficient road strength for the loads, etc....

There has to be a few on here who remember the BS gas rationing and supply issues when people lined up for hours ('77)and miles to get 10 gallons of gas based upon the last number of your license plate. Fortunately I worked for the gas distributors in those days and had my own tank at my folks place. The first shortage my dad and 3 other guys had to car pool from Forest Grove area to Beaverton to Tektronix, otherwise none of them individually could get enough gas to get to work.
 
A small generator like the ones used in a small RV can easily power a fuel pump.
As a retired electrician hooking up a generator to a fuel pump no problem.:D I have
worked with electricians that are "on call" for emergency services just for the
purpose of connecting temp power.:rolleyes:
 
I worked for a railroad terminal in portland we had to transload liquids with a pump mounted on a small trailer, it was air powered but the pump was metered so it would be easy with the proper equipment. the trailer was a cheap habor freight style and I think the pump was also. We used an air compressor to make the pump go, this was from railcar to semi-truck so dropping the hose in a tank instead on connecting to a railcar would be very simple.
The ethanol was loaded from a tower that grounded the railcar and truck, the tower had a stinger that sucked the product from the railcar and into the tanker.
If a gas station was used to lossing power regularly,the equipment to transfer fuel is cheap and easy to acquire, also buying a metered pump wouldnt be impossible, but for the average gas station it would be impractical.
If your diesel truck has a fuel tank and pump, some of those are metered also. Connecting that style pump and meter to a ground tank would be very simple also.
 

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