Form 1 suppressor engraving

[alphapygmy]

I know the engraving needs to be minimum .003 deep and 1/16 tall but can't find the rules about where it must be engraved. Is on the endcap that threads to the weapon acceptable? Anything else a noob should know? If the threaded endcap is acceptable any suggestions on who to do it? Be gentle, I'm a newbie to the Form 1 thing and didn't see the answer elsewhere. Thanks

Read More

 

[Deerhurst]

Most engrave on the tube but some big name companies have engraved on the piece that threads into the barrel.

 

[Member 34319]

I'll have to see if I can find the exact documentation. I recall the front cap being considered a part, that's why manufacturers make them so you can swap front caps with various mount devices. The tube is usually the main part, and this should be engraved.

 

[Member 34319]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-atf-p-53208/download

Page 175 answers the question.

 

[flashpan]

I know the engraving needs to be minimum .003 deep and 1/16 tall but can't find the rules about where it must be engraved. Is on the endcap that threads to the weapon acceptable? Anything else a noob should know? If the threaded endcap is acceptable any suggestions on who to do it? Be gentle, I'm a newbie to the Form 1 thing and didn't see the answer elsewhere. Thanks

Welcome to a better solvent trap!

 

[alphapygmy]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-atf-p-53208/download

Page 175 answers the question.

Thanks! Looks like engraving end caps are legal but not the "accepted industry standard." Saw a knurled tube and wondered where you would engrave and if the knurling dissipates heat faster from more surface area...

 

[Member 5605]

Just do the tube. Then if you replace the cap you are still serialized.
I've considered the caps as well but when it comes down to it, I'm playing that one safe.

 

[wired]

Unless you have something else retaining the baffles it isnt legal to replace the end cap yourself on a form 1 can once its finished. Manufacturers do it with hybrid cans by having something else retain the baffles . It is actually the end cap. The part with a hole in it is just an "adapter". When they do so they get a variance from the ATF for the design.

I have a couple with the end cap engraved. Its legal.

 

[alphapygmy]

I have a couple with the end cap engraved. Its legal.

Who do you recommend that engraves end caps? Thanks

 

[wired]

Tar Heel State Firearms in Matthews NC. Teri will engrave anything, anywhere and is really good and fast. Sailors are offended by her mouth. I love going there. I'm down the road from them but they do mail order work primarily.

 

[Member 34319]

Unless you have something else retaining the baffles it isnt legal to replace the end cap yourself on a form 1 can once its finished. Manufacturers do it with hybrid cans by having something else retain the baffles . It is actually the end cap. The part with a hole in it is just an "adapter". When they do so they get a variance from the ATF for the design.

I have a couple with the end cap engraved. Its legal.

I'm confused by this. Are you stating that cans that sell different end caps are de facto illegal? So if I made a form 1 can, I can't swap different sized end caps like those that manufacturers produce, say a 9mm bore to a 223 bore?

 

[wired]

I'm confused by this. Are you stating that cans that sell different end caps are de facto illegal? So if I made a form 1 can, I can't swap different sized end caps like those that manufacturers produce, say a 9mm bore to a 223 bore?

No. The part with the hole on those cans are not end caps. They are apertures or adapters or whatever they want to call them but they are not technically end caps. The cap being the part that retains the baffles. Like a sleeve that threads in. Manufacturers who make those get variance letters for the design.

If you build a silencer you can't do that LEGALLY. An extra end cap would be considered its very own silencer according to the letter of the law and ATF rulings on the subject going back to 1982. Same goes for the end cap that screws onto the barrel. Cant have extra caps there for different threads or even a booster AND direct thread adapter unless its one of the recent stepped tube ASR Style with an internal ledge that retains the baffles.

 

[Member 34319]

No. The part with the hole on those cans are not end caps. They are apertures or adapters or whatever they want to call them but they are not technically end caps. The cap being the part that retains the baffles. Like a sleeve that threads in. Manufacturers who make those get variance letters for the design.

If you build a silencer you can't do that LEGALLY. An extra end cap would be considered its very own silencer according to the letter of the law and ATF rulings on the subject going back to 1982. Same goes for the end cap that screws onto the barrel. Cant have extra caps there for different threads or even a booster AND direct thread adapter unless its one of the recent stepped tube ASR Style with an internal ledge that retains the baffles.

Thanks for the info.

Very interesting and still very confusing!

What about kits like the Quietbore that ship with a 1/2x28 and 5/8x24 front caps? Or kits that have standard threads and can be used with multiple mounts? All illegal?

Weird that rules for a form 1 don't apply for form 4...

 

[wired]

Quiet bore doesnt build your silencer. You do. They just sell parts that you use to build a silencer. Its up to the builder to make sure that what he builds is within what the law allows. The law does not allow extra parts even end caps. Every part is a silencer is a silencer in and of itself..

If you wan to build a silencer that uses an internal end cap that supports multiple "end things" that arent end caps you can do that. You just have to submit a sample to the ATF for a variance request.

 

[Konajay]

Thanks for the info.

Very interesting and still very confusing!

What about kits like the Quietbore that ship with a 1/2x28 and 5/8x24 front caps? Or kits that have standard threads and can be used with multiple mounts? All illegal?

Weird that rules for a form 1 don't apply for form 4...

Form 4 suppressors are not required to be engraved because you purchased the suppressor from the manufacturer. Form 1 is only required if you build your own suppressor.

 

[Member 34319]

Quiet bore doesnt build your silencer. You do. They just sell parts that you use to build a silencer. Its up to the builder to make sure that what he builds is within what the law allows. The law does not allow extra parts even end caps. Every part is a silencer is a silencer in and of itself..

If you wan to build a silencer that uses an internal end cap that supports multiple "end things" that arent end caps you can do that. You just have to submit a sample to the ATF for a variance request.

Good info. Thanks as always! This definitely helps with future plans. I was thinking another 9mm build, but not after hearing this. I'll just buy a completed can.

Do you have any ATF docs on this? Not that I don't take your advice as fact, just rather be 100% than put myself in the line with a project idea gone south.

 

[wired]

In the first place a good 9mm can will sound 90% as good on a .223 as a dedicated .223 can.

second place it all goes back to the 1982 silencer parts ban thanks to Sylvia and Wayne Daniels who would set up tables next to each other at gun shows with one selling tubes and end caps and the other selling baffles. The ATF rules have been ever since that every part of a silencer is a silencer. No extra parts allowed. Plenty of opinion letters and FAQ out there to that effect. Most form 1 builders don't know , or more likely dont care, that you cant have extra caps and you can't replace parts once the silencer is done. Luckily the ATF has been laying low since Oberfuhrer Reno ( no relation I hope ) went on a few killing sprees. I'm sure they'll come storming back some day.

 

[alphapygmy]

So would it be okay to send out an end cap to be engraved before the Form 1 is approved?

 

[wired]

So would it be okay to send out an end cap to be engraved before the Form 1 is approved?

No problem. Better that way.