Fatal Police Shooting - 18 Rounds Fired, Four Hits.

[sobo]

Judging from that little hippity-hoppity move she must have bounced one off the asphalt and caught his pinky toe.

Spoiler: NSFW - Language

 

[Alexx1401]

Just a question…how many of you have been chased with a knife and had to shoot that person while both you and the target are moving? Easy to find fault watching a video from the comfort of your video screen.

I am not an LEO. I know I can do FAR better than that at that range though in that situation. I also know better than to turn my back on the guy when he is that close to me. Hiring LEO's to check the correct boxes leads to all kinds of problems down the road and often a dead LEO.

 

[bradsteen]

It was a dynamic situation, could have been handled better, but also could have been much worse. The officer is alive, the mom is alive, the dog is alive, and the guy with the knife is dead.

Lessons learned (I'm no LEO, so just looking at it from a civilian perspective):

1. Practicing point-shooting can help get rounds on target when acquiring a sight picture isn't possible or practical, i.e. when having to engage threats at close range and while moving.

2. It's hard to maintain a good backstop when retreating from a threat. I think she was trying to place the vehicle between her and the attacker. However, in doing so her backstop shifted from the house to the street. Not much she could have done there aside from maybe backpedaling to her left instead of to the right, and even then shots could have struck someone other than the target. Moral of the story - sometimes the only backstop you can depend on is the bad guy, so make your shots count.

3. Bystanders sometimes do dumb things like placing themselves in your line of fire. The mother driving the vehicle into the middle of the situation like that added complexity to an already difficult encounter. Again, not much that can be done except maintain awareness of your surroundings and be prepared to move or change tactics to avoid putting bystanders at risk.

4. Know where your friendlies are. There were other officers on scene - as her backstop changed the risk of her hitting another officer increased. The same risk applies if this were a DGU by a civilian instead of a police engagement - the risk of hitting your wife, kids, friends, etc increases as you pivot with the firearm.

5. Low light conditions and chaos at the scene make it harder to notice when someone may be in your line of fire. Use of a powerful flashlight, either in the hand or weapon-mounted, could have helped illuminate the threat and his immediate surroundings. It would also have momentarily blinded him and made it easier to place shots on target effectively.

6. You never know how you will react to a life-threatening encounter until it happens. The officer could be a very good shot at the range and pass her quals with high scores. Nothing dumps adrenaline into your bloodstream like the imminent threat of physical harm, and that affects everything else - decision-making, communication, shot placement, etc. Training will not eliminate the effects, but it will create preprogrammed routines that you will fall back on when these things happen. The more you practice what you've been trained, the stronger those routines will be.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

It was a dynamic situation, could have been handled better, but also could have been much worse. The officer is alive, the mom is alive, the dog is alive, and the guy with the knife is dead.

Lessons learned (I'm no LEO, so just looking at it from a civilian perspective):

1. Point-shooting can help get rounds on target when acquiring a sight picture isn't possible or practical, i.e. when having to engage threats at close range and while moving.

2. It's hard to maintain a good backstop when retreating from a threat. I think she was trying to place the vehicle between her and the attacker. However, in doing so her backstop shifted from the house to the street. Not much she could have done there aside from maybe backpedaling to her left instead of to the right, and even then shots could have struck someone other than the target. Moral of the story - sometimes the only backstop you can depend on is the bad guy, so make your shots count.

3. Bystanders sometimes do dumb things like placing themselves in your line of fire. The mother driving the vehicle into the middle of the situation like that added complexity to an already difficult encounter. Again, not much that can be done except maintain awareness of your surroundings and be prepared to move or change tactics to avoid putting bystanders at risk.

4. Know where your friendlies are. There were other officers on scene - as her backstop changed the risk of her hitting another officer increased. The same risk applies if this were a DGU by a civilian instead of a police engagement - the risk of hitting your wife, kids, friends, etc increases as you pivot with the firearm.

5. Low light conditions and chaos at the scene make it harder to notice when someone may be in your line of fire. Use of a powerful flashlight, either in the hand or weapon-mounted, could have helped illuminate the threat and his immediate surroundings. It would also have momentarily blinded him and made it easier to place shots on target effectively.

6. You never know how you will react to a life-threatening encounter until it happens. The officer could be a very good shot at the range and pass her quals with high scores. Nothing dumps adrenaline into your bloodstream like the imminent threat of physical harm, and that affects everything else - decision-making, communication, shot placement, etc. Training will not eliminate the effects, but it will create preprogrammed routines that you will fall back on when these things happen. The more you practice what you've been trained, the stronger those routines will be.

All great points! Without getting too deep in the weeds here, one routine I have been doing since old enough to have a handgun is pretty much every time I go shooting is I imagine a threat (paint a vivid picture of location such as grocery store, home, yard, etc., what obstacles are there, what person looks like etc) then double taps from the holster on to one or more targets. As I learned more I graduated to double taps to crotch, center mass, head in random order. This has resulted for me in basically a point and shoot or "instinctive shooting" vs find the front sight aim, etc. I don't think or consciously do anything really (other than evaluate the situation and the threat). Kind of like if you had to open a door in a hurry. You just do it immediately and without any thought.

It's actually kind of similar to shooting a red dot pistol in that you can't present the gun and then hunt for the red dot, it won't work (not quickly I mean). But if you present the red dot gun with red dot on target (no hunting or moving the gun) it works great. I can draw from holster and deliver 2 shots without thinking or consciously acquiring the front sight just as accurately (often more so actually if I'm thinking too much in slow fire) than than I can shoot slow fire.

Just saying this is what works for me. Someone else may have different method. I just hope that folks can move away from relaxed slow fire. Practicing that makes you good at relaxed slow fire which is way different than having to respond quickly from the holster under duress.

 

[RobMa]

While I agree some officers here need additional firearms (accuracy) training, I take issue with the mother's account. I can see in the provided video that Officer Sanchez clearly barks orders at dindo Varao to desist, which he does not. At that point, an SUV (civilian POV, presumably with Varao's mother and brother inside) arrives and interdicts. If this is the mother and brother arriving, how can the mother say with any degree of certainty that police did not warn the dobad if they arrived after Officer Sanchez had already barked commands at the dobad? Again, "He, dindo nuthin'! He was a nice boy just turning his life around..."

And yet they scream to the high heaven that everyone has to get firearms training before they're allowed to get a permit to carry!!!
One more example that curtailing people's gun rights have nothing to clucking do with safety...

 

[thekingoftroy]

It was a dynamic situation, could have been handled better, but also could have been much worse. The officer is alive, the mom is alive, the dog is alive, and the guy with the knife is dead.

Lessons learned (I'm no LEO, so just looking at it from a civilian perspective):

1. Practicing point-shooting can help get rounds on target when acquiring a sight picture isn't possible or practical, i.e. when having to engage threats at close range and while moving.

2. It's hard to maintain a good backstop when retreating from a threat. I think she was trying to place the vehicle between her and the attacker. However, in doing so her backstop shifted from the house to the street. Not much she could have done there aside from maybe backpedaling to her left instead of to the right, and even then shots could have struck someone other than the target. Moral of the story - sometimes the only backstop you can depend on is the bad guy, so make your shots count.

3. Bystanders sometimes do dumb things like placing themselves in your line of fire. The mother driving the vehicle into the middle of the situation like that added complexity to an already difficult encounter. Again, not much that can be done except maintain awareness of your surroundings and be prepared to move or change tactics to avoid putting bystanders at risk.

4. Know where your friendlies are. There were other officers on scene - as her backstop changed the risk of her hitting another officer increased. The same risk applies if this were a DGU by a civilian instead of a police engagement - the risk of hitting your wife, kids, friends, etc increases as you pivot with the firearm.

5. Low light conditions and chaos at the scene make it harder to notice when someone may be in your line of fire. Use of a powerful flashlight, either in the hand or weapon-mounted, could have helped illuminate the threat and his immediate surroundings. It would also have momentarily blinded him and made it easier to place shots on target effectively.

6. You never know how you will react to a life-threatening encounter until it happens. The officer could be a very good shot at the range and pass her quals with high scores. Nothing dumps adrenaline into your bloodstream like the imminent threat of physical harm, and that affects everything else - decision-making, communication, shot placement, etc. Training will not eliminate the effects, but it will create preprogrammed routines that you will fall back on when these things happen. The more you practice what you've been trained, the stronger those routines will be.

Exactly…I've refrained from responding to the "I could have done it betters" on the internet following my original comment. I am a retired LEO and have been in similar situations which are incredibly stressful and your adrenaline is on overload.

The other thing to remember here is this Officer had less than two years on the job and people react to not only their training but also experience. Lastly there was two other officers involved that also fired rounds so the eighteen rounds fired was a culmination of the three people with guns involved. I've also watched numerous videos since this post with officers engaging a person with a knife and they are all multiple shots. With many of the officers moving backwards. Which is not as easy as it sounds. The last thing you want to do is trip and fall backwards with someone closing the distance with an edged weapon.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Continuing the open a door analogy, this video is like slow fire training, someone says do it this way, then just do it faster if you need to. Big mistake imo. Train from the get go for the instinctive no mind auto response. Shooting under duress quickly, managing recoil, etc is way different than just relaxed slow fire. Ok I'll step off soap box now ha ha.

That's some quality educational programming right there baby!

 

[Stomper]

WOW!
Four rounds hit Varao and 18 casings were recovered. The mother of Varao and the family dog were both grazed by bullets.
Not much to say on this one.....

Well....okay.
Maybe one of them fired the WARING shot at the mother and dog which took a good aim since they grazed them.
Or hell, maybe the spray and pray method was utilized?

Sing this to that song, "Feliz Navidad"….


The police shot my dog, the police shot my dog.

The police shot my dog, and then they shot at my dear ma-ma…..

 

[Dust2Dollars]

They hit her in the leg, they hit her in the leg....
The dog just yelped and ran away....
Feliz Navidad, Feliz Navidad,

 

[Jay Walk]

We all know what we're doing until we're in the $hit.

 

[Jay Walk]

If only it saves one life...








...or the 14 behind the threat.

Same argument they make against the everyday citizen.

 

[Alexx1401]

Continuing the open a door analogy, this video is like slow fire training, someone says do it this way, then just do it faster if you need to. Big mistake imo. Train from the get go for the instinctive no mind auto response. Shooting under duress quickly, managing recoil, etc is way different than just relaxed slow fire. Ok I'll step off soap box now ha ha.

That's some quality educational programming right there baby!

I have worked with a few people who could not master something like that.

 

[Stomper]

We all know what we're doing until we're in the $hit.

More fittingly


"Everybody wannabe gangsta, 'till it time ta do gangsta sheite".

 

[Alexx1401]

More fittingly


"Everyone wannabe gangsta, 'till it time ta do gangsta sheite".

YEP!! The ones I love are the people over the years who "told me" how great a shot they were. That they did not understand all these newfangled things people bought to shoot better as "they did not need them". So you get to the range with them and they can't stay on paper. The people who can't even stay on paper are always the ones saying how great they would do when they needed that gun. I have always figured if they could not hit a target that was not shooting back they would be in real trouble with one that was

 

[guntrunw]

I think a there is a serious need for firearms training here. Video included.

Monterey County DA releases video showing officers shooting King City man

According to the report, Varao ran towards police with a knife is his hand before being shot at by all three law enforcement officers on scene.

www.ksbw.com

CLASSIC, never been there but I'm gonna second guess and judge from the comfort of my computer chair… welcome to the 21st century of "my perception" judgement…

 

[Alexx1401]

CLASSIC, never been there but I'm gonna second guess and judge from the comfort of my computer chair… welcome to the 21st century of "my perception" judgement…

When there is video that good its pretty easy to see what the problem was. MANY just hate to be forced to see what hiring to check boxes does so they try to pretend it did not happen.

 

[solv3nt]

YEP!! The ones I love are the people over the years who "told me" how great a shot they were. That they did not understand all these newfangled things people bought to shoot better as "they did not need them". So you get to the range with them and they can't stay on paper. The people who can't even stay on paper are always the ones saying how great they would do when they needed that gun. I have always figured if they could not hit a target that was not shooting back they would be in real trouble with one that was

I've mentioned this before, but it's a great story. I was in Hawaii, and the 4th of July is apparently everybody and their dog go to the range day.

I watched a dude tacticooled out saunter up to a full IPSC torso from about 5 yards and proceed to miss all ten rounds. That was about the time I decided to take off.

 

[Alexx1401]

I've mentioned this before, but it's a great story. I was in Hawaii, and the 4th of July is apparently everybody and their dog go to the range day.

I watched a dude tacticooled out saunter up to a full IPSC torso from about 5 yards and proceed to miss all ten rounds. That was about the time I decided to take off.

YEP! The range I am a member of I only go first thing when they open. That way often there is no one or a couple other shooters. I get my fix and pack up to leave normally before the place gets busy. While back I was watching as lane near me was using one of the hostage targets. From 15feet his shots were either missing the entire damn paper or hitting the hostage. I thought dude if you are trying to "save" some hostage don't fire.

 

[greydog111]

I think a there is a serious need for firearms training here. Video included.

Monterey County DA releases video showing officers shooting King City man

According to the report, Varao ran towards police with a knife is his hand before being shot at by all three law enforcement officers on scene.

www.ksbw.com

Portland Police Bureau Oregon had this kind of reputation years ago.Seems like now they just don't shoot at all.

 

[greydog111]

Portland Police Bureau Oregon had this kind of reputation years ago.Seems like now they just don't shoot at all.