Does Ruger have a problem?

[CLT65]

I tend to agree with this statement. At least Ruger makes an honest effort to make good on QC issues. I've had to send a couple of Ruger revolvers back in the past few years. But I've also had three new Smith & Wesson products that had QC issues and they are way behind Ruger in making mistakes right. Smith & Wesson has an attitude of "it's good enough" and actually said words of that sort to me with one problem gun. I no longer have the email, but I think what they said was a cosmetic issue and didn't affect function. Well, you pay $1,000 for a revolver it should look good, huh? Smith used to make good, quality guns and the few with problems they would take care of without a whimper. That's changed.

These days you are taking a risk by leaving your vehicle at the franchise dealer. In the hands of mechanics (now called technicians) who may or may not know what they are doing. My experience is few know what a torque wrench is. If they don't have a socket, they use the next size that will fit (and wreck fasteners). They bend steel hydraulic lines out of the way to change an oil filter because they are too lazy to go around the line. They use an impact wrench to install an oil drain plug. I could go on. For a while, I quit working on my own outfits and trusted them to the franchise dealers. Lately, I've taken to working on them again myself due to QC issues. You pay big money for service at the dealers, you'd think you'd get better quality service. My dad was in service management for decades, he had a quality crew who knew how to work on cars. True, cars are more complex now, I'll grant you that. On the other hand, at dealers now they don't even rebuild engines or transmissions, that work is sent out. Which was mostly done in-shop in my dad's day.

Work ethic has been replaced by the hack, the improper and disingenuous shortcut to end results. Clever has replaced character. It has even been found in the service academies. It is the new American norm that has become the substitute for integrity.

I'm glad it's not just me. I was talking to a friend a few months ago. He's an old merchant-marine guy who's now a large ferry captain. He was bemoaning the loss of skill and pride in the country. It seems that you used to be able to take pride in your work, be the best, put out a quality product, make sure it was right, and be recognized for it.

Nowadays it's all about profit. Quality and pride is just talk, things that corporations say to make themselves sound good. Instead they want to micromanage the tiniest little variable to maximize every last penny of profit. Instead of 5 minutes of finish deburring, you need to limit it to 2 minutes. Those minutes saved translate into more corporate profits, you know.

Morale is terrible where I work. We went through a big structural change a couple years ago and it's been disastrous for us. The corporate big-wigs over on the east coast talk big about how great things are and corporate profits are through the roof. We're a small crew with decades of skill and experience, and now we're treated like retail flunkies. Most of us have 20+ years in a technical field, and they don't seem to care. They'd be happy to replace us with someone else for half the pay. Why pay a skilled guy who can do things right, when you can get a mediocre beginner who can kind of, sort of get it done to bare minimum specs for a lot less?

 

[UnionMillsNW]

Work ethic has been replaced by the hack, the improper and disingenuous shortcut to end results. Clever has replaced character. It has even been found in the service academies. It is the new American norm that has become the substitute for integrity.

This is just part of the problem. The other side of that coin is people don't want to pay for quality work.

I have a small woodworking business. I've made everything from custom cabinets to children's toys. It's all handmade and quality materials cost good money. Cost wise I can't compete with Ikea furniture or stuff coming out of Asia. So my market is very limited. The customers that spend the money understand they are getting a quality, made in America, product.... but most people would rather buy a junk particle board piece made in China because it cost less.

In my opinion the drop in quality across all industries over the past 50 years shares equal blame between Companies that cut corners...and customers that are unwilling to spend the money on high quality lasting items

 

[joken]

Seems like on all the gun forums I frequent, threads pop up fairly regularly extolling the virtues of Ruger's customer service in dealing with a defective firearm. Then, invariably, the thread will be populated by multiple posts of similar stories of Ruger firearms with problems that were sent in and repaired quickly and without question.

What's curious, is that there are so many stories of defective firearms coming from Ruger lately. I own four Ruger firearms and three are flawless. The 22/45 Lite pistol I have is very ammo sensitive, but that's normal, I guess, for a .22 semi-auto.

The impression I'm getting is that Ruger is putting out a lot of defective firearms. But, that's a purely subjective view based only on having seen random responses online.

Perhaps someone who works at a retailer or distributor could shed light on whether or not there seems to be a much higher rate of issues with Rugers than with other manufacturers. I'm looking into getting a compact and lightweight bolt rifle in .308 and the Ruger Predator is high on my list.

I wonder if some of the issues are simply new gun owners that are not familiar with their first gun and everything that entails?

 

[gmerkt]

We went through a big structural change a couple years ago and it's been disastrous for us. The corporate big-wigs over on the east coast talk big about how great things are and corporate profits are through the roof. We're a small crew with decades of skill and experience, and now we're treated like retail flunkies. Most of us have 20+ years in a technical field, and they don't seem to care. They'd be happy to replace us with someone else for half the pay. Why pay a skilled guy who can do things right, when you can get a mediocre beginner who can kind of, sort of get it done to bare minimum specs for a lot less?

This is just part of the problem. The other side of that coin is people don't want to pay for quality work.

This is all part of the same disease. Jobs in America that involve actually creating something, some item you can hold in your hand or measure in some way, this is the kind of work that has in large measure gone away. Some work has transitioned into sitting at a desk pushing buttons. Which is fine but in a way creates an infrequency with reality. People who don't make things lose touch with what it takes to make them. They lose touch with quality. Corporations don't appreciate quality work because they don't equate quality with a future.

Being honest, there were always lower tier consumer products that were crap. For people of lesser means. But now most of it is crap and its buyers are universal.

 

[oremike]

I saw those trends also and decided to do and be different when I set up my ammo business.

Back to guns, I recently bought a brand new Remington 700 left hand SPS in 300 win mag. Before I shot it I ran a bore snake down the bore and it came out black as tar with a thick oil on it, I didn't think anything of it other than dang now I need a new bore snake.
I had some hand loads that I'd made for my last 300 winny and since I'd used range picked up brass I knew they were full length sized and trimmed to the same OAL. In other words they should work in any 300 win mag.
I get to the range and the cartridges drop right into the chamber but the bolt won't go all the way forward. Three different loads and the same problem three times. I make a quick trip to Bi Mart for some factory ammo only to have the same problem. On further inspection I find the case head won't fit in the bolt face and more research reviled that a 30-06 case fit the bolt face. The bolt and rifle have matching serial numbers and the rifle is marked 300 Win Mag. I took it back to the dealer I bought it from showed him the problem and he agreed that it never should have left the factory that way. I told him I didn't want that one back and in fact was done with Remington for good. I took my credit and bought a 629 Smith and ordered a Browning X-Bolt Hunter in the 300 win mag.

Edited to add on topic: that I have 5 Ruger single action revolvers with nary a problem amonest them.

 

[RVTECH]

Other than my PCC issue (which is minor in the big scheme of things) all the Rugers I have owned (about six) have been excellent.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

As a long time ruger owner, I've noticed a marked decline in their fit and finish over the decades.

Off the top of my head, my list is:

1) Security Six
1) P89
11) 10/22
1) Ruger American Predator
2) Vaqueros
1) SR45
1) Security 9
1) M77 Long range target

The only one with issues that warranted returning it to Ruger was my latest purchase of the M77, and it was not ready for primetime when I got it back from them.

 

[HaveGun]

Work ethic has been replaced by the hack, the improper and disingenuous shortcut to end results. Clever has replaced character. It has even been found in the service academies. It is the new American norm that has become the substitute for integrity.

I was complaining to my dad about my woes at work in which co-workers are consistently late, have no work ethic, job not being done with common sense, and no one cares about the actual mission of our team., etc. All co-workers are under 30 and most play video games in their spare time or some other nonsense.

My dad said the problem was that I had integrity and actually cared about the job. He said in today's society, I simply had to no longer care about those things. He said I had to simply realize that the world has changed and no one values work ethic and old-fashioned concepts like showing up for work on time, doing what's best, and common sense.

It's sad, but I think he's right. When things aren't done efficiently and properly, it drives me nuts.

I need to try and follow the old AA adage; "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."

 

[HaveGun]

As for Ruger, I actually worked there in 2012 for a few months between career and life changes. Long story, but I was not impressed with the Quality Control team.

I ran a CNC machine and noticed that the milled dots on rear sights were off-center randomly and I couldn't get them within spec. I alerted my supervisor, who alerted QC. They came down and inspected everything and determined that the jig that held the rear sight in place was worn out. The sights were for a SR model, I believe.

They decided that replacing the jig was too expensive and to ignore it.

About a year later, my brother and I were looking at guns in an LGS and I asked to see a Ruger pistol and, sure enough, the rear dots were milled incorrectly.

 

[CLT65]

My dad said the problem was that I had integrity and actually cared about the job. He said in today's society, I simply had to no longer care about those things. He said I had to simply realize that the world has changed and no one values work ethic and old-fashioned concepts like showing up for work on time, doing what's best, and common sense.

I have noticed this too. I was talking to a senior guy in our organization. He has given his entire adult life to the company and is nearing retirement. He's frustrated and burnt out. Quality is among his responsibilities, at a high level, and his work load is beyond overwhelming. He does the job that ten used to do. He said one day that the only way he copes is to just do what he can, day to day, and he's trained himself to simply not care about the rest.

I have read a couple places that it is a part of the modern business model to try to overwhelm the workers. Someone determined somewhere that workers were more productive when overwhelmed and stressed out. If that's true, I think it's idiotic.

 

[washagonian]

I've owned nine Ruger firearms, the first being purchased back in 1985. I have enjoyed them all and found them to be as reliable as any other manufacturer's firearm that I have owned.

What I have noticed over the years as social media has proliferated is that it is easier to become aware of people experiencing problems with firearms. It may be that the same percentage of folks had problems with a particular firearm in the past, but now we find out about it through the internet, when in the past we would not have been aware. (Or ... maybe not.)

FUN FACT: Did you know that Ruger intentionally does NOT provide a written warranty with their firearms. (Check out a Ruger firearm manual to confirm.)

 

[CLT65]

What I have noticed over the years as social media has proliferated is that it is easier to become aware of people experiencing problems with firearms. It may be that the same percentage of folks had problems with a particular firearm in the past, but now we find out about it through the internet, when in the past we would not have been aware. (Or ... maybe not.)

That's for sure. For example, I've had a few Taurus guns over the years and never had a problem, but I've read so many gripes about Taurus from others online that I'd be very hesitant to ever buy another Taurus.

 

[Arne K]

Super Blackhawk, GP100, Single Six, Mark III Hunter, #1 -.264, #1 - .270, 77 Mk II, - .300, 10/22, American - .270. I have had to call Ruger twice. The first time was because my prized #1 in .264 mag was in a sock in the gun cabinet. Residue from a desiccant dehumidifier was spilled and wicked up the sock, causing rust on the butt pad screws, swivel studs, lever, and breech block. I called Ruger and explained my stupid mistake and asked for a quote to replace the parts. They said they would have to inspect the rifle to give a quote and I said I would send it to them. They emailed me a shipping label (no charge) and I sent it in. A week and a half later, I received a call saying that my rifle was fixed and being shipped back to me that day. No charge! The second call was for an American Rifle that had a sticky magazine and they mailed me a new one, no questions asked.

 

[washagonian]

That's for sure. For example, I've had a few Taurus guns over the years and never had a problem, but I've read so many gripes about Taurus from others online that I'd be very hesitant to ever buy another Taurus.

I agree with your observation about Taurus. I think the huge law suit regarding the safety issue of " "Pro" model semi auto pistols really created a huge quality question in everyone's minds. That, and Taurus' price point can create the perception of quality and reliability being lower than is actually the case (we see that in everything from cars to computers to audio systems, etc.). You don't always get what you pay for. (Take a look at Canik pistols - half the price of Glock, way better firearm equally as good a firearm - I personally think they are better.) Disclaimer: I own both Glocks and Caniks.

One more note on Taurus: I've purchased and sold eight Taurus pistols over the past several years (currently own four). Of those eight I had occasion to send three back the factory for minor repair issues: broken spring for loaded chamber indicator; broken front sight (my fault - I stripped the screw); broken rear plastic sight - when I got it from the factory. Each time I called Taurus, got right through, setup the return warranty request, they sent me a shipping label and paid for round trip shipping, and I got each pistol back with three weeks. No charges at all. Same exact experience each time with three different pistol models over a 2 year period. Granted, the repairs were simple, but they didn't balk about paying the shipping and the turn around was excellent. YMMV.

 

[Rascal01]

I remember back before the Old Man died.



He was a dick.

I've heard that about him. But one thing about Mr. Ruger running Ruger, he really ran Ruger. The problem is people don't pay much attention to dead people. They don't seem to get much respect.

Back in the day I had an Old Model Super Blackhawk. It was as nice a revolver as you ever cared to see. Thank you, Mr. Ruger.

 

[Medic!]

I've heard that about him. But one thing about Mr. Ruger running Ruger, he really ran Ruger. The problem is people don't pay much attention to dead people. They don't seem to get much respect.

Back in the day I had an Old Model Super Blackhawk. It was as nice a revolver as you ever cared to see. Thank you, Mr. Ruger.

Well I couldn't be trusted with a 20 round magazine. A LCP, or any other small conciliable handgun from Ruger.

So thanks you Mr. Ruger..

 

[Rascal01]

I remember those days, to include Mini-14s with 5 round magazines. He didn't want to produce para-military products or have his guns used in mass shootings. He was very restrictive in his product line. That's over with now.

 

[CLT65]

One gun I would never buy again is a Heritage Rough Rider. They're not bad for the money, generally, but if you get a bad one, something with a clear factory defect right out of the gate, it will cost you $50 to send it to them for the warranty work, and the warranty work may or may not be done right.

When I got mine back from factory warranty repair, it had negative cylinder gap. That's right, the cylinder face was riding on the breach end of the barrel. It's amazing that anyone who calls them self a gunsmith would ever let something like that leave their workbench. There was no way I was going to spend another $50 to send it back again. I fixed it myself as best as I could, and it sits in my safe unused.

 

[OldTengu]

I had a bcg issue with an AR556 that they fixed by sending me a new bolt carrier. Also last year the LCP I purchased from them left the factory without he retention pins that keep the fire control group in the frame. Same deal, they sent me the parts and a few mags for the trouble.
All said, I've been looking for a P89 in .45 for a while. I like ruger. Still haven't had the problems with them I've had with other manufacturers, and I still like those products too.

 

[RVTECH]

Hoping to hear from them this coming week on my PCC.