Concentricity Sampling and Sorting

[Ridge Walker]

Needing some consistent, accurate ammo to chase optimal receiver torque for a Savage 6.5 Creedmoor next weekend; I decided to sort 200 rounds of 140 grain Hornady American Gunner for concentricity as a start. For me random sampling the of Hornady AG 140 has been inconsistent of late, but I was pleasantly surprised by this batch.

FYI:
200 Rounds Sorted:
0 - .0005 8 rnds
.0005 - .001 39 rnds
.001 - .002 62 rnds
.002 - .003 57 rnds
.004 - .005 32 rnds
.005 - .0055. 2 rnds

Nearly 25% (47) were better than .001, over 50% were better than .002 and only 17 % were foulers. Better than sampling had led me to believe it would be. Looks like I have 47 to sort by jump tomorrow night.

Anyone else do this? How is what your buying rolling out?

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[Stomper]

So... many.... decimal places.... feeling... so....

 

[deadeye]

Never rely on mass produced bean counter ammo when you can home roll, just sayin.

 

[DizzyJ]

Needing some consistent, accurate ammo to chase optimal receiver torque for a Savage 6.5 Creedmoor next weekend; I decided to sort 200 rounds of 140 grain Hornady American Gunner for concentricity as a start. For me random sampling the of Hornady AG 140 has been inconsistent of late, but I was pleasantly surprised by this batch.

FYI:
200 Rounds Sorted:
0 - .0005 8 rnds
.0005 - .001 39 rnds
.001 - .002 62 rnds
.002 - .003 57 rnds
.004 - .005 32 rnds
.005 - .0055. 2 rnds

Nearly 25% (47) were better than .001, over 50% were better than .002 and only 17 % were foulers. Better than sampling had led me to believe it would be. Looks like I have 47 to sort by jump tomorrow night.

Anyone else do this? How is what your buying rolling out?

It's been awhile since I checked factory ammo for concentricity. Last time I did, I was not impressed.

I'm sure the match grade stuff is better. Good on ya for checking. More information is never a bad thing.

Well, almost never.

 

[DizzyJ]

Which tool are you using to check concentricity? I've found the Hornady and Sinclair can give vastly different numbers.

 

[P7M13]

Where's my beer?

 

[Ridge Walker]

Not sure why the Sinclair is giving different readings than the Hornady. I am using the Hornady btw.

The Hornady is the only one that has the 'attitude adjustment' scew, which is helpful with NATO spec. I dont worry about neck tension with the NATO as much because of the sealer they use.

It seems pretty accurate. With the NATO, even some of the surplus LC has read .01+, but tweaking it has paid big dividends without its crappy velocity SD becoming much worse, if I don't tweak too much that is.

The Hornady is fast, so sorting is quick. FYI, I did consider the Sinclair, even though it was more expensive, and required back ordering. So... price, availability and a exclusive 'useful to me' feature is what led me to buy a product that does what I originally wanted; one that provides a efficient and accurate means to sort loaded cartridges by concentricity, with repeatable results for comparative analysis.

As a side note; that purchase was the third time I have thought about a Sinclair product, and the item was out of stock when I had the money and it was on sale. So I still don't own a Sinclair anything, and am Hornady Happy, so far...

What's the story on your observed Delta?

 

[DizzyJ]

Not sure why the Sinclair is giving different readings than the Hornady. I am using the Hornady btw.

The Hornady is the only one that has the 'attitude adjustment' scew, which is helpful with NATO spec. I dont worry about neck tension with the NATO as much because of the sealer they use.

It seems pretty accurate. With the NATO, even some of the surplus LC has read .01+, but tweaking it has paid big dividends without its crappy velocity SD becoming much worse, if I don't tweak too much that is.

The Hornady is fast, so sorting is quick. FYI, I did consider the Sinclair, even though it was more expensive, and required back ordering. So... price, availability and a exclusive 'useful to me' feature is what led me to buy a product that does what I originally wanted; one that provides a efficient and accurate means to sort loaded cartridges by concentricity, with repeatable results for comparative analysis.

As a side note; that purchase was the third time I have thought about a Sinclair product, and the item was out of stock when I had the money and it was on sale. So I still don't own a Sinclair anything, and am Hornady Happy, so far...

What's the story on your observed Delta?

I believe the readings I'm getting from the Sinclair may be more true to reality. The Hornady is going off of a point on the bullet tip and the case head. The Sinclair rides off of the body and neck diameter.

Anything causing deviation on those measure points will affect the implied runout reading.

 

[Ridge Walker]

Got you. So far it seems to be working, very accurate and repeatable. It does what I need for right now since I am buying 'tailor-mades' and surplus to have more time at the bench. When I get to where I have enough time to actually reload I will probably pay up to get a 21st Century (Accuracy One is out of reach) but right now there is just too many competing needs, scopes, triggers, magazines, etc... that list is seemingly endless. However yes some day I will need help qualifying, shaving, and trimming 'match-grade' cases to reload and I will step up to another tool. Til' then the Hornady is quick, it tweaks surplus, and it sorts the 'Quality"store-bought. Once the 'reloading shop' is back up and running the 21st Century will be on my short list...

 

[DizzyJ]

Got you. So far it seems to be working, very accurate and repeatable. It does what I need for right now since I am buying 'tailor-mades' and surplus to have more time at the bench. When I get to where I have enough time to actually reload I will probably pay up to get a 21st Century (Accuracy One is out of reach) but right now there is just too many competing needs, scopes, triggers, magazines, etc... that list is seemingly endless. However yes some day I will need help qualifying, shaving, and trimming 'match-grade' cases to reload and I will step up to another tool. Til' then the Hornady is quick, it tweaks surplus, and it sorts the 'Quality"store-bought. Once the 'reloading shop' is back up and running the 21st Century will be on my short list...

It's what I used for several years. Nothing wrong with that!

I hear you on the competing for funds thing. Always something needing attention from your wallet.

 

[Ridge Walker]

This a expensive hobby that for me seems to lead to other expensive hobbies. Hunting leads to sport shooting. That leads to more firearms, then to hobby smithing and reloading. That to casting, then to powdercoating. Hey why not do Duracoat & Cerakote... First its 100, then 600, then 1000 yards. Heck now I have the KO2M in Raton, NM on my bucket list.

 

[DizzyJ]

This a expensive hobby that for me seems to lead to other expensive hobbies. Hunting leads to sport shooting. That leads to more firearms, then to hobby smithing and reloading. That to casting, then to powdercoating. Hey why not do Duracoat & Cerakote... First its 100, then 600, then 1000 yards. Heck now I have the KO2M in Raton, NM on my bucket list.

I fail to see the problem.

 

[Ridge Walker]

$, $, & of course $.

 

[Goosebrown]

Concentricity is partly a function of neck length and seating depth. On my 308 without work on handloads with competition dies, I am .003 as my cut off. Short neck.

On my 6mmbr without any work I get .001 or .002. But it has a much longer neck.

Just an observation. 6.5 has good neck length so I'd expect pretty good concentricity.

 

[Ridge Walker]

You are right about necks. They are important, and longer is way easier for good concentricity.

 

[Caveman Jim]

I almost froze to death on Raton Pass back in 79. I was stuck in a snow drift...

Sorry for the drift...

 

[DizzyJ]

I almost froze to death on Raton Pass back in 79. I was stuck in a snow drift...

Sorry for the drift...

I was there two years ago using their "Cooper" range. Nice place!

Stretched out the 6.5 creedmoor to its limits and probably a little bit beyond. Lol

 

[Steel Head]

OP,,,that's actually pretty decent for factory ammo.

Take the best half and worst half and compare groups.

This a expensive hobby that for me seems to lead to other expensive hobbies. Hunting leads to sport shooting. That leads to more firearms, then to hobby smithing and reloading. That to casting, then to powdercoating. Hey why not do Duracoat & Cerakote... First its 100, then 600, then 1000 yards. Heck now I have the KO2M in Raton, NM on my bucket list.

Lol
SO TRUE!
Was ecstatic to hit 600 with my AR
Then 1000 with my 260
Then 1400 with my 260
Then a bit over a mile with my 260
Now I regularly shoot 1900-2000 with my 7 saum.
2000 yards is getting kinda meh now.
I got a piece of steel at 2300 now to try.
After that it's probably time to build that 375 I want

 

[Ridge Walker]

OP,,,that's actually pretty decent for factory ammo.

Take the best half and worst half and compare groups.

Lol
SO TRUE!
Was ecstatic to hit 600 with my AR
Then 1000 with my 260
Then 1400 with my 260
Then a bit over a mile with my 260
Now I regularly shoot 1900-2000 with my 7 saum.
2000 yards is getting kinda meh now.
I got a piece of steel at 2300 now to try.
After that it's probably time to build that 375 I want

Well myself, I was gonna skip the 7, pause at the 338 Lapua before I went all Cheytac and stuff lol

Like I tell Wifey, it's better than being a drug addict or a whoremonger!

 

[Steel Head]

Well myself, I was gonna skip the 7, pause at the 338 Lapua before I went all Cheytac and stuff lol

Like I tell Wifey, it's better than being a drug addict or a whoremonger!

I didn't have any reasonable big boomer shooting spots but have discovered three area's over this last winter and spring so It's time to consider a new build
338's right now are kinda irrelevant except for the 33XC and a few wildcats.
In ELR even the 375's are being considered a bit underpowered but they'll certainly fill my needs.





For now