Concealed Carry: OSU (Oregon State) Campus

[Cougfan2]

So what ever happened to "Give me liberty or give me death" or "You can have my gun when you pry it out of my cold dead hands" or "Come and get them"? Some people here even have lines like that as part of their signatures. But do they walk the walk?

When it comes to actually having the courage of conviction, I see only sheep. At least leftists are willing to be arrested to protest and call attention to what they perceive to be an unjust law.

All this complaining about unlawful restrictions on guns, and not one of the complainers is willing to risk anything to present a challenge?

All hat, no cattle.

It's not a matter of not ever picking a fight, it's a matter of choosing the wisest one's to pick. As far as all hat no cattle, the only evidence of cattle I see in this thread is your BS.

 

[PhysicsGuy]

Anyone feel free to correct me.
These locations are public property not private property. Oregon state statutes provide for cities and counties to be able to establish some regulation regarding firearms. Any other state or local entity cannot. OSU can have all the regulations that it desires, but those regulations are generally not valid. If you have a CHL, then not even the cities and counties can regulate your carry.
There can always be a price concerning them telling you that you may not enter or demand that you leave, but they have no legal basis to do so. It could generate a hassle, but you are not violating "the law".

While OSU is a publicly funded school, it is not entirely public property. Just like a public high school, they retain the right to trespass you from the premise.

Whether or not they have the right to actually regulate firearm possession is a whole different topic all together.


To the OP:
Just so you know the actual laws involved, my guess is that these are applicable;

https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/164.278
https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/164.265

 

[Member 5605]

To the OP:
Just so you know the actual laws involved, my guess is that these are applicable;

https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/164.278
https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/164.265

Appreciate the info.

 

[orygunmike]

While I'm not a lawyer and I don't even want to play one on TV, I tend to disagree with PhysicsGuy.

When you said, "they retain the right to trespass you from the premise", I assume you meant they have the legal right to do so. I disagree. The colleges and Universities in Oregon do not have the right to regulate concealed carry in the state of Oregon. There is zero room for debate on that issue. If in doubt, I'll be glad to show where you can read a copy of a letter from Oregon's chief lawyer that says exactly that. Section 166.170 (State preemption) states that ONLY the legislature can regulate firearms, with 3 exceptions. None of those exceptions include allowing schools to regulate concealed carry. Therefore, since they do not have the right to prevent you from legally carrying a firearm on public property, they do not have the right to make a "no guns policy" a condition of remaining on public property. Therefore, because they don't have that right, they legally can not require you to leave as a result of your legal carry of a concealed firearm. All this being said, it is unclear how being a student of the university may change the situation. As has unfortunately been seen in recent situations (Western Oregon University), a student was suspended for concealed carry and the courts would not hear the case. This is somewhat similar to the case in Medford where a teacher was not allowed to carry her pistol on school property in spite of having an Oregon CHL. In Jane Doe Vs Medford School District the court found that that Oregon's preemption statute does not protect employees from gun restrictions imposed on them by state employers.

This same logic makes your statement, "Just like a public high school, they retain the right to trespass you from the premise" completely false and incorrect.

I hope this sheds further light on this topic. This is a dang complicated topic, and we all need to do the best we can to know the law for ourselves. Along with getting Starrett's book I mentioned previously, becoming a supporter of the Oregon Firearms Federation and getting on their free Legislative Alert Email List (https://www.oregonfirearms.org/) will keep you abreast of the latest developments around 2nd Amendment issues.

While OSU is a publicly funded school, it is not entirely public property. Just like a public high school,
Whether or not they have the right to actually regulate firearm possession is a whole different topic all together.


To the OP:
Just so you know the actual laws involved, my guess is that these are applicable;

https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/164.278
https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/164.265

 

[ZachS]

I hope this sheds further light on this topic. This is a dang complicated topic, and we all need to do the best we can to know the law for ourselves.

If you agree that this topic's complicated, why do you adhere so strongly to your conclusions about what the law is? In truth, none of us will know what it really is until it's tested in court.

 

[eriknemily]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe there is an Oregon student, Jeffery Maxwell a former marine, who got kicked out of an Oregon university, Western Oregon I believe. It was discovered that he carried concealed on campus and he subsequently got expelled in one form or another. OFF went to bat for him and last I heard he lost his case even though that exact ORS that give the legislature the sole right to regulate CONCEALED carry in pubic places. Somehow the school snowballed the court.
So, while I agree that Oregon's concealed carry preeminence law is quite plain and explicit, the court seems to see otherwise at this point.

I found links to the OFF alerts (listed chronologically):

Oregon Firearms Federation

Oregon Firearms Federation

Oregon Firearms Federation

I didn't see anywhere if it said that Mr. Maxwell was carrying concealed at the time of arrest or not. If not I can see how one could twist it so that his CHL had no bearing on campus policy.

 

[Trlsmn]

So what ever happened to "Give me liberty or give me death" or "You can have my gun when you pry it out of my cold dead hands" or "Come and get them"? Some people here even have lines like that as part of their signatures. But do they walk the walk?

When it comes to actually having the courage of conviction, I see only sheep. At least leftists are willing to be arrested to protest and call attention to what they perceive to be an unjust law.

All this complaining about unlawful restrictions on guns, and not one of the complainers is willing to risk anything to present a challenge?

All hat, no cattle.

You want to link us to all the test cases of you standing tall before the man for our gun rights there cowboy?

 

[orygunmike]

eriknemily --

If you read those links to the OFF site, I think you will see that this case never went to court. While he was initially arrested by campus police, they quickly dropped the arrest. Along the way OFF decided that taking this to court was not in the best interest of Maxwell (read the info in your links, it is pretty convoluded to follow). The school then put together a "tribunal' of people to 'try' Maxwell for violating school policy. Of course this 'tribunal' found him guilty and gave him some BS 'sentence" in order for him to remain a student.

I too thought I'd heard that he had lost in court, but I don't believe that it ended up going to court. If you find something to the contrary, I'd like to see it as this situation, and any outcomes from a 'real' court, is obviously important to future situations of people legally carrying on public property. Thanks.

Oh, and if my old memory is correct, I recall that the original situation that caused this was they originally discovered him carrying a knife, and then found that he had a rifle in his vehicle. I don't think he was carrying a firearm concealed. But I could be 100% wrong on that...I just can't remember.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe there is an Oregon student, Jeffery Maxwell a former marine, who got kicked out of an Oregon university, Western Oregon I believe. It was discovered that he carried concealed on campus and he subsequently got expelled in one form or another. OFF went to bat for him and last I heard he lost his case even though that exact ORS that give the legislature the sole right to regulate CONCEALED carry in pubic places. Somehow the school snowballed the court.
So, while I agree that Oregon's concealed carry preeminence law is quite plain and explicit, the court seems to see otherwise at this point.

I found links to the OFF alerts (listed chronologically):

Oregon Firearms Federation

Oregon Firearms Federation

Oregon Firearms Federation

I didn't see anywhere if it said that Mr. Maxwell was carrying concealed at the time of arrest or not. If not I can see how one could twist it so that his CHL had no bearing on campus policy.

 

[pokerace]

Concealed means concealed! As long as they don't frisk you, you should be fine.

And would ANYONE allow them to frisk you.

 

[eriknemily]

eriknemily --

If you read those links to the OFF site, I think you will see that this case never went to court. While he was initially arrested by campus police, they quickly dropped the arrest. Along the way OFF decided that taking this to court was not in the best interest of Maxwell (read the info in your links, it is pretty convoluded to follow). The school then put together a "tribunal' of people to 'try' Maxwell for violating school policy. Of course this 'tribunal' found him guilty and gave him some BS 'sentence" in order for him to remain a student.

I too thought I'd heard that he had lost in court, but I don't believe that it ended up going to court. If you find something to the contrary, I'd like to see it as this situation, and any outcomes from a 'real' court, is obviously important to future situations of people legally carrying on public property. Thanks.

Oh, and if my old memory is correct, I recall that the original situation that caused this was they originally discovered him carrying a knife, and then found that he had a rifle in his vehicle. I don't think he was carrying a firearm concealed. But I could be 100% wrong on that...I just can't remember.

I guess I had just assumed that it had also gone to court. I knew about there campus tribunal crap that they pulled. I can't recall the exact circumstances that precipitated his arrest but a firearms in a vehicle shouldn't have anything to do with that. I believe previous court rulings (of which I have no proof) have stated that a personal vehicle would not be subject to campus policy or private property rules. I didn't state that well but basically I can have a firearm in my vehicle even if the place of my employment doesn't allow firearms on there campus.

 

[Cougfan2]

I guess I had just assumed that it had also gone to court. I knew about there campus tribunal crap that they pulled. I can't recall the exact circumstances that precipitated his arrest but a firearms in a vehicle shouldn't have anything to do with that. I believe previous court rulings (of which I have no proof) have stated that a personal vehicle would not be subject to campus policy or private property rules. I didn't state that well but basically I can have a firearm in my vehicle even if the place of my employment doesn't allow firearms on there campus.

This is true, but keep in mind that Oregon is an "at will" employment state. An employer can fire you at any time for any reason or give you no reason at all (I'm sure this does not apply to union employees, but everyone else), so if you take your firearm to work your are at risk if for some reason your employer would have security search your car.

I know when I worked at Intel I carried a pistol in my car, but I always kept it under the seat and never let anyone know I carried let alone even owned firearms.

 

[eriknemily]

This is true, but keep in mind that Oregon is an "at will" employment state. An employer can fire you at any time for any reason or give you no reason at all (I'm sure this does not apply to union employees, but everyone else), so if you take your firearm to work your are at risk if for some reason your employer would have security search your car.

Quite true. Fortunately my employer is an avid firearm enthusiast also. He collects mid 1800's firearms and such so I don't think I need to worry about that.

 

[Cougfan2]

Quite true. Fortunately my employer is an avid firearm enthusiast also. He collects mid 1800's firearms and such so I don't think I need to worry about that.

Sounds like we're both lucky. The owner of the company I work for is an NRA instructor. My Sig 229 sits in a Bianchi bag on my desk every day.

 

[deen_ad]

Sounds like we're both lucky. The owner of the company I work for is an NRA instructor. My Sig 229 sits in a Bianchi bag on my desk every day.

that good here, but another worker asked the boss about carrying at work (swing shift security). The boss said "you have a concealed permit don't you?" Yes. "Just don't do anything stupid" So far I haven't except for once when my shirt rode up over the HK and I had taken my vest off. Secretary say it and exclaimed "is that a GUN?" Luckily the other worker that originally asked was in the office and able to cover so no one else heard her.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
WAC member
SWWAC member

 

[Kevin Starrett]

eriknemily --

If you read those links to the OFF site, I think you will see that this case never went to court. While he was initially arrested by campus police, they quickly dropped the arrest. Along the way OFF decided that taking this to court was not in the best interest of Maxwell (read the info in your links, it is pretty convoluded to follow). The school then put together a "tribunal' of people to 'try' Maxwell for violating school policy. Of course this 'tribunal' found him guilty and gave him some BS 'sentence" in order for him to remain a student.

I too thought I'd heard that he had lost in court, but I don't believe that it ended up going to court. If you find something to the contrary, I'd like to see it as this situation, and any outcomes from a 'real' court, is obviously important to future situations of people legally carrying on public property. Thanks.

Oh, and if my old memory is correct, I recall that the original situation that caused this was they originally discovered him carrying a knife, and then found that he had a rifle in his vehicle. I don't think he was carrying a firearm concealed. But I could be 100% wrong on that...I just can't remember.

Just to be clear, this case IS before the Oregon courts now. There have been many delays, (as always) but the Oregon Firearms Educational Foundation is suing the Oregon University System to overturn their anti-gun rule. If you are subscribed to our alerts, you will get updates as the case proceeds.

 

[eriknemily]

Just to be clear, this case IS before the Oregon courts now. There have been many delays, (as always) but the Oregon Firearms Educational Foundation is suing the Oregon University System to overturn their anti-gun rule. If you are subscribed to our alerts, you will get updates as the case proceeds.

Thanks Kevin. Nice to see you on NWFA. Looking forward to the updates.

 

[Gas]

Just curious, I went to Piece College, and I was informed from Security I had every right to carry at the school since it was not public, but private. Would a university fall into this category?

 

[orygunmike]

So glad to see you chime in Kevin, and to find out this is going to the court.

I was going to write you this weekend and ask where this case stood.

Keep up the good work!

Just to be clear, this case IS before the Oregon courts now. There have been many delays, (as always) but the Oregon Firearms Educational Foundation is suing the Oregon University System to overturn their anti-gun rule. If you are subscribed to our alerts, you will get updates as the case proceeds.

 

[ZachS]

Just curious, I went to Piece College, and I was informed from Security I had every right to carry at the school since it was not public, but private. Would a university fall into this category?

You might want to start a new thread, this one's discussing Oregon law.

In Oregon, any private institute can set its own policy, whether it calls itself a "college" or "university." (There is no legal distinction between the two types of institution.)

 

[biggie24420]

This is why I like PCC because as far as I know, if you have a valid permit you can CC. I wish my boss had the power to let me carry on duty.