Can the condition of a modern firearm be described as "good" with rust?

[bbbass]

On those lines I would have said, "derse"….. as in "derp" and "worse" combined.

OK, but I'm sticking with mine.

 

[Stomper]

OK, but I'm sticking with mine.

That's racist!

 

[bbbass]

That's racist!

Phug it!!! I'll be the racist Hucklberry!!

 

[Stomper]

Phug it!!! I'll be the racist Hucklberry!!

That's misogynistic!

 

[bbbass]

That's misogynistic!

Miss Odd Gymnast???

Greta says, "How DARE you"!!

 

[Stomper]

Miss Odd Gymnast???

Greta says, "How DARE you"!!

That's fascist!








May as well just go down the playbook list….

 

[bbbass]

That's fascist!








May as well just go down the playbook list….

Nope, I'm a fat chit, not fascist. LOL

 

[ScottInPDX]

Getting into an argument over the condition of seller's firearm is a "good" way to waste time....and lose out on a firearm.

Does the condition meet your standards for the asking price....?
If it does...buy it...if not , make a polite counter offer..
Andy

Fortunately it was not my purchase.

Someone else made a forum post (not NWFA) with pictures of a recent purchase. He was complaining about the rust when the advertised condition was "good", and he got slammed with people saying he just doesn't understand the grading scale, citing the link I provided. The photos provided by the seller did not show the rust.

I guess I'll give away my position now... I'm firmly in Group B for the reasons stated. I asked several of the people in that thread, including the account of the vendor that sold the gun in question, how it can be "Good" when it doesn't meet the standard for "Fair", and never got a clear answer.

I was very much in the minority there. So I decided to come here and either get a more clear answer and learn something, or get confirmation that I'm not losing my mind.

 

[Lilhigbee]

Has no one noticed that it's a stupid standard?? "...no rust, but corrosion pits..". WTF are "corrosion pits" except rust on a steel firearm??
It's written with the same clarity as a five-year old telling you about their day.

 

[bbbass]

Has no one noticed that it's a stupid standard?? "...no rust, but corrosion pits..". WTF are "corrosion pits" except rust on a steel firearm??
It's written with the same clarity as a five-year old telling you about their day.

There wasn't a differentiation between a "Steel" firearm, and those with aluminum components, which do get corrosion pits and not rust. IMO, a few "corrosion pits" don't make an aluminum frame or barrel sleeve gun a bad buy, but a rusted steel gun certainly would be.


ETA: I had an old RG38 that was some kind of pig iron or pot metal... it was covered in misc corrosion pits, but had no rust at all!!!

 

[bbbass]

I was very much in the minority there. So I decided to come here and either get a more clear answer and learn something, or get confirmation that I'm not losing my mind.

And what was your final analysis???

 

[po18guy]

Ah, internet arguments...here are the categories for modern guns:

• NEW: Not previously sold at retail, in same condition as current factory production.
• PERFECT: In New condition in every respect. (Jim's note - in my experience, many collectors & dealers use "As New" to describe this condition).
• EXCELLENT: New condition, used but little, no noticeable marring of wood or metal, bluing perfect, (except at muzzle or sharp edges).
• VERY GOOD: In perfect working condition, no appreciable wear on working surfaces, no corrosion or pitting, only minor surface dents or scratches.
• GOOD: In safe working condition, minor wear on working surfaces, no broken parts, no corrosion or pitting that will interfere with proper functioning.
• FAIR: In safe working condition but well worn, perhaps requiring replacement of minor parts or adjustments which should be indicated in advertisement, no rust, but may have corrosion pits which do not render article unsafe or inoperable.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Ah, internet arguments...here are the categories for modern guns:

• NEW: Not previously sold at retail, in same condition as current factory production.
• PERFECT: In New condition in every respect. (Jim's note - in my experience, many collectors & dealers use "As New" to describe this condition).
• EXCELLENT: New condition, used but little, no noticeable marring of wood or metal, bluing perfect, (except at muzzle or sharp edges).
• VERY GOOD: In perfect working condition, no appreciable wear on working surfaces, no corrosion or pitting, only minor surface dents or scratches.
• GOOD: In safe working condition, minor wear on working surfaces, no broken parts, no corrosion or pitting that will interfere with proper functioning.
• FAIR: In safe working condition but well worn, perhaps requiring replacement of minor parts or adjustments which should be indicated in advertisement, no rust, but may have corrosion pits which do not render article unsafe or inoperable.

Where's Poor, Very Poor, Unsafe, or "police gun buyback fodder"?

 

[po18guy]

• NEW: Not previously sold at retail, in same condition as current factory production.
• PERFECT: In New condition in every respect. (Jim's note - in my experience, many collectors & dealers use "As New" to describe this condition).
• EXCELLENT: New condition, used but little, no noticeable marring of wood or metal, bluing perfect, (except at muzzle or sharp edges).
• VERY GOOD: In perfect working condition, no appreciable wear on working surfaces, no corrosion or pitting, only minor surface dents or scratches.
• GOOD: In safe working condition, minor wear on working surfaces, no broken parts, no corrosion or pitting that will interfere with proper functioning.
• FAIR: In safe working condition but well worn, perhaps requiring replacement of minor parts or adjustments which should be indicated in advertisement, no rust, but may have corrosion pits which do not render article unsafe or inoperable.
• POOR: Usually described on GunBroker as"Stunning", "Rare", "Collectible", "Desireable" etc.
• VERY POOR: All GunBroker listings not described as above.
• UNSAFE: All guns tinkered with, Bubba'ed, made in shop class, or in a modular building or mobile home.
• POLICE BUY-BACK: Hi-Point, regardless of condition.

 

[coop44]

No naval jelly, no brillo, boil it dumb*** , turns the rust blue, card it and you are done. Evidently you have never heard of rust bluing.

 

[CamoDeafie]

No naval jelly, no brillo, boil it dumb*** , turns the rust blue, card it and you are done. Evidently you have never heard of rust bluing.

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Rust Bluing: Can You Do it At Home?

How tough it is to rust blue steel at home? Contributor Keith Wood investigates.

www.americanhunter.org

Its a bit more involved than that

 

[ScottInPDX]

And what was your final analysis???

I may still be losing my mind, but this discussion wasn't evidence for it. My reading of the standards and conclusion were reasonable.

 

[bbbass]

I may still be losing my mind, but this discussion wasn't evidence for it. My reading of the standards and conclusion were reasonable.

Yah, I agree.

I'm slowly losing my mind... hepatic encephalitis... lack of focus and things don't compute the way they used to... age 70 with an 80yr old wife that has dementia... this should be fun.... NOT!!!

 

[gmerkt]

The old NRA grading standard hasn't been an accurate yardstick for decades. It might've been adequate back in the 1960's when guns didn't cost so much relative to everything else. And in a time when lots of gun buyers weren't as discriminating. And there were lots of scuzzy imports. It might've been a reasonable standard when lots of Civil War relics were still trading hands and there were few of them that were all that nice.

The phrase, "...corrosion or pitting that will interfere with proper functioning" says a lot. It opens the door for a lot of cosmetic rust. I've seen Mauser rifles that had near 100% surface rust that were still functional. But I wouldn't have considered them "good" on any scale.

In this day and age, it's all about pictures. I don't sell rusty guns because I don't buy them in the first place. When I've sold on Gunbroker, I've described the amount of remaining finish by percentage, which has been an accepted method for quite some time. That, with pictures, should give buyers a much better sense of the goods offered than subjective grading.

Summary, I'm a Group B guy. The old NRA grading standard is completely obsolete and contemporary use of it makes me suspect the merchandise offered needs cover for that standard to be used.

 

[gmerkt]

When I was younger, sometimes my pals and I would refer to really bad pieces as, "NRA Horrible." Which, considering generous NRA grading, meant they were really bad.