Biden admin wants 200 grizzlys in North Cascades Nat'l Park

[The Heretic]

Or if you're a redneck Russian, it seems like they get a lot of free passes from bears. Never figured out how they can keep a bear as a friend/pet.

If they raise them from a cub, keep them fed regularly, and habituated to human contact by specific humans, then they are a pet wild animal.

Some people point out wild animals that are "pets" (or at least habituated to contact with specific humans) as "proof" that some of these species are neither dangerous nor do they need to prey on other species (or sometimes, be violent to their own species) - but it is just evidence that if you remove the struggle for survival, they have little reason to be violent or hunt.

However, when it comes time for them to mate, many of them act according to their natural instincts and become quite dangerous. Same can go for interactions with members of their own species. It is best to remember that they are still wild animals and can be quite dangerous without warning.

 

[Tlock]

If they raise them from a cub, keep them fed regularly, and habituated to human contact by specific humans, then they are a pet wild animal.

Some people point out wild animals that are "pets" (or at least habituated to contact with specific humans) as "proof" that some of these species are neither dangerous nor do they need to prey on other species (or sometimes, be violent to their own species) - but it is just evidence that if you remove the struggle for survival, they have little reason to be violent or hunt.

However, when it comes time for them to mate, many of them act according to their natural instincts and become quite dangerous. Same can go for interactions with members of their own species. It is best to remember that they are still wild animals and can be quite dangerous without warning.

Ya the lady that was eaten by her pet couger in Clackamas county thought the same thing....I seen the autopsy pics, it wasn't just a mauling

 

[The Heretic]

Ya the lady that was eaten by her pet couger in Clackamas county thought the same thing....I seen the autopsy pics, it wasn't just a mauling

I have a friend I used to work with who keeps "pet" cougars (he had one he raised from a cub, the others were "rescues" he kept from people who gave them up). He also had some bobcats - those he could not hand feed.

I pet the female he raised from a cub, and she left a bruise on my arm from being a little too rambunctious while playing (she didn't bite me, she grabbed my arm with her paws).

He also kept some rescue wolves - those could not be allowed to be with humans.

All of these could not be reintroduced to the wild due to their history and health.

 

[osprey]

Being effective at going in and targeting a specific animal causing a problem isn't a easy thing to do. Not everyone can do it....it takes a special skill set and years of experience. We are the csi of the animal crime scene world. We arnt just a bunch of rednecks running around with cool guns and thermals.....OK so I lied We are!

It isn't people like you I resent, it is the created need I resent. In other words I hate the game not the player.

 

[Tlock]

It isn't people like you I resent, it is the created need I resent. In other words I hate the game not the player.

I hate the game too! Probably more than most people, I get to see the bs first hand.

 

[Bobbygun]

running around with cool guns and thermals

Probably around 20 years ago when Dad was alive, he had a problem cat on his cattle ranch. The ODFW told him to go ahead and kill it pretty much any way he could. We were out in his pastureland that included quite a bit of timber as well. He had a high-powered spotlight on a "cougar" about 150 yards away, urging me to "shoot it, shoot it". I had a 12-power scope that gathered more than enough light to allow me to get a good look at the "cougar", which was actually a steer. I passed up the shot.

 

[rdb241]

FJB

 

[whiskeybill]

I really don't mind Grizzlies. If you adopt a proper backwoods behavior when in Grizzly country, you'll likely be alright. I have been on hunting trips for Elk in "The Thoroughfare" near YNP a couple of times. With the food stuff properly cached away from camp, they don't bother you, though you know they are out there in the dark. You know it by the way the horses sound. They don't bother the horses either. We have ridden by Grizzlies within 100 feet of us, and they just look and go on about their business. All of THAT being said, it's usually some tenderfoot that gets into trouble because they don't understand Grizzlies or the environment they live in. It's rare, but even an experienced hunter / backwoodsman can get jumped for God only knows why. They usually get too near to one unknowingly and surprise the bear.

Which brings me to the plan of planting Grizzlies. There will certainly be someone tippy toeing along the PCT at some point, some fine spring day, not a care in the world, and stumble upon one of these bruins that is feeding on some carcass. Or one that has just awoken from hibernation, still a bit groggy and really hungry. There will have been warning signs posted, but who really pays attention to those? Every visitor to YNP that has been mauled by a bear, or gored by a bison, or stomped by a moose, has all of those warnings tucked neatly away in the glove box of their cars, unread, after a park ranger hands them out at every gate. I don't blame the bear. It's their house, not mine.

 

[Cavedweller]

It's their house, not mine.

It's a national park, created by law for human enjoyment. Not a wildlife refuge or a wilderness area. Is this proposed action consistent with the intended purpose of national parks?

 

[Juniper9mm]

Well word has it the grizzly's are countering, and only willing to put 75 of their members in the North Cascades Nat'l Park. We'll see how this plays out.

 

[whiskeybill]

It's a national park, created by law for human enjoyment. Not a wildlife refuge or a wilderness area. Is this proposed action consistent with the intended purpose of national parks?

As I said before, it wouldn't surprise me if there were already Grizzlies in NCNP. Humans set up boundaries for humans. Animals come and go as they please. There are always unintended consequences of government intervention in the natural order of things. For instance, the NPS transplanted Mountain Goats into Olympic National Park in the 1930's. The goats certainly did not come as they please in this instance. Presently, it has been determined that the goats are damaging / eradicating native mosses and lichens that are unique to the Olympic Mountains. The answer is to hunt down these goats and kill them with sport hunts. Now I am not sure if Mountain Goats had been native to the Olympics, but it is entirely feasible that Grizzly Bears were once in the North Cascades. The Fish & Wildlife Service has also established that once a species becomes established in an area that they previously were not found (25 years is the time frame) then they are considered a native species. An example of this would be Adak Island in the Aleutians. Caribou were transported to Adak in the 1950's and planted there. This was to supplement sport hunting for military folks stationed there, and also as a food source should Adak be cut off due to Cold War hostilities. Adak was once used to raise Foxes for fur in the days of Russian possession, and foxes now roam the tundra there. Rats arrived on ships. The only truly native species there are Ptarmigan, Bald Eagles and Salmon. There are no wolves to control the caribou population. The Navy left Adak in 1994, and now the only way to control the Caribou population is hunting by the few natives that live there, or the occasional sport hunters that take the time to go there.

National Parks were created for human enjoyment, but they were also created to protect the wildlife living there, and many of them were also considered wilderness. That goes hand in hand. So yes, they are a wilderness, and a wildlife refuge. With the exception of the Olympics (Mountain Goats) or Volcanoes NP in Hawaii (wild pigs) you cannot hunt game in National Parks.

 

[The Heretic]

As I said before, it wouldn't surprise me if there were already Grizzlies in NCNP.

My understanding (for over a decade) was that there are indeed brown bears in northern WA state, and that one had been seen as far south as RNP.

 

[whiskeybill]

My understanding (for over a decade) was that there are indeed brown bears in northern WA state, and that one had been seen as far south as RNP.

I was stationed at Whidbey Island for a number of years, and spent a good deal of time backpacking in the North Cascades. What I saw with my own eyes were Black Bears, Elk, and Deer. That does not rule out there were probably a few Grizzlies in the region. If there were numbers of those bears that approximated the Glacier area of NW Montana, or Yellowstone, I likely would have seen one or two. In the 1980's to the 1990's when I was up there, I had heard "rumors" of Grizzly sightings, but nothing the game department would ever validate. One report actually came from a state trooper who was cruising Highway 20 near Washington Pass. He never called it a Grizzly, but from his detailed description, well you get the picture. It wasn't the common Black Bear.

 

[The Heretic]

I was stationed at Whidbey Island for a number of years, and spent a good deal of time backpacking in the North Cascades. What I saw with my own eyes were Black Bears, Elk, and Deer. That does not rule out there were probably a few Grizzlies in the region. If there were numbers of those bears that approximated the Glacier area of NW Montana, or Yellowstone, I likely would have seen one or two. In the 1980's to the 1990's when I was up there, I had heard "rumors" of Grizzly sightings, but nothing the game department would ever validate. One report actually came from a state trooper who was cruising Highway 20 near Washington Pass. He never called it a Grizzly, but from his detailed description, well you get the picture. It wasn't the common Black Bear.

I've said this before, and it is probably because I am a klutz and make too much noise, but in 50+ years of being in the outdoors, in vehicles, on foot, on motorcycles/bicycles/skis, in Alaska (Kenai, Ketchikan, Fairbanks), Montana (GNP/Polebridge/pretty much from the west to the eastern borders), Idaho, WA state (including the area around Mt. Baker, RNP, Cle Elum, Spokane, Kettle Falls, etc.), I have never seen a single bear of any kind, in the wild - period. I saw brown and black bear tracks when hiking on the Kenai and that is it.

I've been told by neighbors and the loggers who worked logging my property here, that there are bears on and around my property. Same for cougars. Never seen them.

Doesn't mean they are not out there.

*Shrug*

 

[whiskeybill]

If you happen to play golf, head up to Iron Horse Golf at Whitefish, Montana. Golfers regularly have to give the Griz the right of way. No kidding.

 

[gmerkt]

We had a similar discussion re. the forced reduction of barred owls. Trying to balance nature out to "how it used to be" is a fool's errand. Too many changes, as Andy has already said. Things change over time. So long as mankind is walking the planet and multiplying, nature will definitely change. So introducing wolves and bears to make things like they used to be, that's like trying to bring back the dinosaurs.

 

[Barefootdog]

Years ago on a city lot in Yachats on the Oregon coast somebody was keeping a cougar caged in a large chain link enclosure. The enclosure was adjacent to a pie (or ice cream?) shop just off the HWY 101. Lots of tourist traffic. I thought that was a unique tourist attraction.

The pie (or ice cream) was good despite having to compete with the stench from the cougar enclosure.

40+ years ago.....anyone else remember that?

What does that have to do with the current crop of pecker heads wanting to release grizzly bears?....probably nothing. Unless they do it next to a pie (or ice cream) shop.

 

[Tlock]

Years ago on a city lot in Yachats on the Oregon coast somebody was keeping a cougar caged in a large chain link enclosure. The enclosure was adjacent to a pie (or ice cream?) shop just off the HWY 101. Lots of tourist traffic. I thought that was a unique tourist attraction.

The pie (or ice cream) was good despite having to compete with the stench from the cougar enclosure.

40+ years ago.....anyone else remember that?

What does that have to do with the current crop of pecker heads wanting to release grizzly bears?....probably nothing. Unless they do it next to a pie (or ice cream) shop.

You just never know what your gonna run into in Yachats.....