Beginners Guide to Reloading Costs (most cost effective rounds you have)

[Certaindeaf]

I too once thought I had way too much "free" time, so instead of writing lengthy missives criticizing my fellow man, I simply stole Christmas from them.

 

[Kruel J]

Damn, I thought the move to Boise put someone in a better mood. That sure didn't last long.

 

[oremike]

So here is some math for the bean counter, Buffalo Bore makes a 255 gr SWC 45 Colt load that runs 1000 fps. I make a 45 Colt 255 SWC that runs 1000 fps. Buffalo Bore charges $1.80 / round making it $1800/ 1000. I can make my load for .30 each. I can make 1000 rounds in 2 1/2 hours. $1800 - $300 = $1500 so I'm saving $600.00/ hour to do it myself.

 

[DizzyJ]

So here is some math for the bean counter, Buffalo Bore makes a 255 gr SWC 45 Colt load that runs 1000 fps. I make a 45 Colt 255 SWC that runs 1000 fps. Buffalo Bore charges $1.80 / round making it $1800/ 1000. I can make my load for .30 each. I can make 1000 rounds in 2 1/2 hours. $1800 - $300 = $1500 so I'm saving $600.00/ hour to do it myself.

But you're gonna die quicker and lose your marriage in the process.....

 

[Member 5605]

IBTL...
And I started the thread... lol.

 

[tac]

I know it's not much, but -

Prvi Partizan 7.5x55v Swiss costs £85.00/C here in yUK - that is currently $110.40 - and I have a 200 mile drive to get it - even with my car making 40mpg that's another $42.45 per C.

Total - $152.80 or $1.53 per shot....

Even using premium bullets - Hornady 168gr HPBT Match - I can still make a round as good as GP11, and WAAAAAY better than PPU, for a lot less.

In fact, 65c per shot.

That's a saving of 88c per shot.....

That, Friends, is REAL economy.

Even a lawyer can't argue with that.

 

[thorborg]

If you feel facts and accurate information are "condescending," then my apologies. But reality can be hard for some folks.

Really?
I think more are laughing than offended.
I am.

 

[Kruel J]

Really?
I think more are laughing than offended.
I am.

Oh I had all kinds of funny responses I thought of. Well, funny to me anyway.

 

[Kruel J]

 

[bbbass]

Even a lawyer can't argue with that.

Yer dreamin!!!

"Arguing with a fill in the blank is like wrestling with a pig in the mud... Sooner or later you come to the realization that the pig is enjoying it!"

 

[turbo_vanner]

The economic argument is not purely MONETARY. There's also opportunity costs.

10 hours spent reloading *might* save a reloader $500. "Wow," he thinks, look at all the money I saved this weekend reloading. That's 10 hours NOT doing something else, but sitting at a press pulling a lever or similar sedentary...

Meanwhile, this sedentary lifestyle costs him time doing XYZ which might improve his marriage, relations with kids, health, etc. So is it *really* saving money? Dunno. Reloading might be a great money saving venture for someone who cannot earn a living or would otherwise spend it smoking cigars in a casino betting on horses and losing. Or it might actually be more expensive than, say, spending time improving a marriage that might otherwise end in a $50,000 divorce and asset split. Or improving health to avoid that fated cardiac arrest at age 55 from being overweight from sitting at a reloading bench for 3 decades "saving money" pulling a lever.

That's opportunity costs.

It cracks me up when reloaders show how thin skinned they are at the mere suggestion they aren't getting rich reloading and pointing out intellectually HONEST calculations. This thread is titled, "
Beginners Guide to Reloading Costs (most cost effective rounds you have)"
Yet how dare someone like me (with an MBA and plenty of economics courses) try to suggest many of you are leaving out key variable inputs in your "costs of reloading" calculations. Then invariably, folks will come along, attack the messenger for daring to inject reality in the calculation, tell me to go away, and remind me that "it's a hobby," blah blah blah.

If it's a hobby, then fine. But don't pretend that it's all this free money growing on trees when that's a totally dishonest calculation when you refuse to calculation time and opportunity costs.

Or don't be mad when I say I got some free guns today. I just had to work to earn the money to buy them, but they were free because I enjoy my job.

If someone's marriage is falling apart, or someone is neglecting their kids, if their body is falling apart, then sure, sitting at a reloading bench might not be a valuable way to spend time, but I'm pretty sure we all do this during the 'well, ain't got crap else to do' blocks of time everyone except very important and smart people seem to have. I know its anecdotal, but I'm single, 32, and still manage to exercise and stay in shape, and play in a few bands, and reload, so there go all your arguments. I'm not neglecting any 'key variables' in my cost analysis, and its quaint that you think you know more about other people's personal time, than they do.

Some stranger, like you, is hardly going to convince me that from 6-8pm last night, I had something better to do than prep a few hundred cases. If I didn't I just would have watched the Blazers game, but OH WAIT!!! I watched the game while I prepped cases! Dang, its like I can just do this hobby and live a full, productive life at the same time. I can shoot the best ammo, for a fraction of the cost, and not give up any part of my life, so win, win, win, and a win for the blazers last night. Wins all around.

 

[tac]

I'm not trying to start a fight, or offend folks.

As one of the few token furriners here, an easy 5000 miles away and therefore invulnerable, I might offer the opinion that you are making a mighty fine job of both ambitions.

Right now, Sir, the hole you are digging for yourself with your 'I'm sorry but...' jawboning is threatening to swallow up us ordinary people who are trying to respond to the original posit of this thread - Post #1 - 'Share your most cost effective reloading rounds.'

I know it's a hard thing to do, swallowing words, and though they come out really easy, getting them back down is never going to be enjoyable.

My advice to you, if you'll take it, is to remember the story of the chicken and the cow-pat, and suck up your ire at the way that us mere mortals are failing to see things your way.

 

[leadcounsel]

So here is some math for the bean counter, Buffalo Bore makes a 255 gr SWC 45 Colt load that runs 1000 fps. I make a 45 Colt 255 SWC that runs 1000 fps. Buffalo Bore charges $1.80 / round making it $1800/ 1000. I can make my load for .30 each. I can make 1000 rounds in 2 1/2 hours. $1800 - $300 = $1500 so I'm saving $600.00/ hour to do it myself.

Really? How, exactly, did you come up with .30 cents each? I guess your reloading bench magically set up, in a room you magically don't pay for per square foot (rent or mortgage), your reloading gear magically arrived free of cost, your components just magically arrive and inventory themselves on shelving you magically acquired free, etc. You magically got books and manuals, and none if required non-productive time learning how to reload, trial and error, testing loads, conversations such as this, and so forth...

So, let's run with this extreme example you've cited.

Have you factored in:
* Sunk costs time to learn to reload, buy reloading equipment, set up reloading equipment, etc. Hours and hours of non-productive time. Doubt it.
* Variable ongoing costs of searching for and buying, ordering, scrounging for, etc. the 4 components (primers, bullets, brass, powder)? Doubt it. To make that ammo, you have to shop for the best prices on 4 components. You clearly haven't factored that time.
* Time inventorying, sorting, etc. all your stuff. Doubt it.
* Time testing loads? Doubt it.
* You're presumably buying your components in bulk for economies of scale, but dishonestly selected a 20 round box of ammo to contrast it with. I'd bet if you found larger quantity boxes of ammo to compare, you'd find a smaller cost per round (i.e. 20 round box of 9mm is higher cost per round that 1000 round box).
* How much per month extra are you spending on that reloading room?

Then when you have a mistake, who underwrites it? A reloader does if it's his mistake. That means either and/or a kaboom, loss of firearm, and pulling a lot of bullets. Most "kaboom" stories (95%+) I've read are reloaders shooting reloads. Fact is liability. If a consumer gets a kaboom with factory ammo, the company will step in, pay the losses and pay for the ammo and medical bills. A reloader is "self insured" I suppose. Total loss, and if someone was shooting his ammo possibly a lawsuit.

Also factor in that mountain of ammo you spent making has $0 economic value if you had to liquidate it for financial needs. The ammo I purchased in bulk took one quick transaction and done. And it was "free" I guess because I enjoyed the hours of labor it required to earn the money, using reloader logic and math. Anyway, I could sell it all off today in hours for near market prices or higher.

So, two people a reloader with 10,000 rounds and consumer sitting on 10,000 factory rounds. Hard times hit, and a reloader could probably not get scrap value for his ammo because it must be pulled. That represents near 100% losses in labor and components. The consumer conversely could sell off his ammo at or near market value. Say 30 cents/round or $3000. Who is ahead in that ECONOMIC scenario.

Ya'll just aren't going to convince me from an ECONOMIC standpoint that reloading is financially sound.

I'm not making any economic arguments about time spent on forums. I know it's in a category called "hobby" and am not claiming I'm making money doing it. Ya'll are on the flip side, making fake news economic arguments about reloading and I'm just here to point out your folly.

$600 an hour . What a laugh. Maybe you should open a business reloading at that rate!!! The reason you and others won't is because it's a false economy using totally fabricated and fake information inputs and you know it would never approach those figures.

 

[P7M13]

My advice to you, if you'll take it, is to remember the story of the chicken and the cow-pat, and suck up your ire at the way that us mere mortals are failing to see things your way.

@tac, I'd like to hear (read) that fable. if it's the one I think, I learned it long ago as the "sparrow and the cow pie."

 

[leadcounsel]

As one of the few token furriners here, an easy 5000 miles away and therefore invulnerable, I might offer the opinion that you are making a mighty fine job of both ambitions.

Right now, Sir, the hole you are digging for yourself with your 'I'm sorry but...' jawboning is threatening to swallow up us ordinary people who are trying to respond to the original posit of this thread - Post #1 - 'Share your most cost effective reloading rounds.'

I know it's a hard thing to do, swallowing words, and though they come out really easy, getting them back down is never going to be enjoyable.

My advice to you, if you'll take it, is to remember the story of the chicken and the cow-pat, and suck up your ire at the way that us mere mortals are failing to see things your way.

I'm not sorry in the least, nor backpedling whatsoever, about bringing truthful ECONOMIC arguments to a thread about the ECONOMICS of reloading. Few or none here acknowledge the time and opportunity COSTS involved and that's just flatly a fake narrative about reloading that reloaders rarely factor.

And it's simply "fake news."

If you ENJOY doing it then fine. I do a lot of things that are not necessarily cost effective, like your reloading. I change my own oil, swap out my own tires, cook for myself, mow my yard, etc. and those aren't necessarily cost effective. But I enjoy doing it.

 

[Kruel J]

Really? How, exactly, did you come up with .30 cents each? I guess your reloading bench magically set up, in a room you magically don't pay for per square foot (rent or mortgage), your reloading gear magically arrived free of cost, your components just magically arrive and inventory themselves on shelving you magically acquired free, etc. You magically got books and manuals, and none if required non-productive time learning how to reload, trial and error, testing loads, conversations such as this, and so forth...

So, let's run with this extreme example you've cited.

Have you factored in:
* Sunk costs time to learn to reload, buy reloading equipment, set up reloading equipment, etc. Hours and hours of non-productive time. Doubt it.
* Variable ongoing costs of searching for and buying, ordering, scrounging for, etc. the 4 components (primers, bullets, brass, powder)? Doubt it. To make that ammo, you have to shop for the best prices on 4 components. You clearly haven't factored that time.
* Time inventorying, sorting, etc. all your stuff. Doubt it.
* Time testing loads? Doubt it.
* You're presumably buying your components in bulk for economies of scale, but dishonestly selected a 20 round box of ammo to contrast it with. I'd bet if you found larger quantity boxes of ammo to compare, you'd find a smaller cost per round (i.e. 20 round box of 9mm is higher cost per round that 1000 round box).
* How much per month extra are you spending on that reloading room?

Then when you have a mistake, who underwrites it? A reloader does if it's his mistake. That means either and/or a kaboom, loss of firearm, and pulling a lot of bullets. Most "kaboom" stories (95%+) I've read are reloaders shooting reloads. Fact is liability. If a consumer gets a kaboom with factory ammo, the company will step in, pay the losses and pay for the ammo and medical bills. A reloader is "self insured" I suppose. Total loss, and if someone was shooting his ammo possibly a lawsuit.

Also factor in that mountain of ammo you spent making has $0 economic value if you had to liquidate it for financial needs. The ammo I purchased in bulk took one quick transaction and done. And it was "free" I guess because I enjoyed the hours of labor it required to earn the money, using reloader logic and math. Anyway, I could sell it all off today in hours for near market prices or higher.

So, two people a reloader with 10,000 rounds and consumer sitting on 10,000 factory rounds. Hard times hit, and a reloader could probably not get scrap value for his ammo because it must be pulled. That represents near 100% losses in labor and components. The consumer conversely could sell off his ammo at or near market value. Say 30 cents/round or $3000. Who is ahead in that ECONOMIC scenario.

Ya'll just aren't going to convince me from an ECONOMIC standpoint that reloading is financially sound.

I'm not making any economic arguments about time spent on forums. I know it's in a category called "hobby" and am not claiming I'm making money doing it. Ya'll are on the flip side, making fake news economic arguments about reloading and I'm just here to point out your folly.

Dude. Give it a rest. Seriously. Nobody here needs nor cares about your lectures.

 

[Certaindeaf]

So here is some math for the bean counter, Buffalo Bore makes a 255 gr SWC 45 Colt load that runs 1000 fps. I make a 45 Colt 255 SWC that runs 1000 fps. Buffalo Bore charges $1.80 / round making it $1800/ 1000. I can make my load for .30 each. I can make 1000 rounds in 2 1/2 hours. $1800 - $300 = $1500 so I'm saving $600.00/ hour to do it myself.

Indeed, my decades old go-to plinker/carry load that costs me probably $3/100 to make is a Semi-Wadcutter (Lee 105 or 140gr or a Lyman 133gr), in 9mm, loaded pretty hot. The closest though in my eyes inferior factory load to it is an Underwood or BB Woods or Outdoorsman load that cost $1/ea? or something.
Works for me.

 

[tac]

Enough, already.

Sir, you are peeing into the wind here, even if you are the only one who can't see it.

Let it go, before the hammer of Mod locks this increasingly unpleasant thread.

I've been reloading since 1968, and at one time for fourteen different PISTOL calibres, let alone the current seven rifle calibres. Whatever my loading gear has cost me over the last fifty-one years has been forgotten.

You being a lawyer an' all have some fine arguments that you engaging in, but thus far you have a 100% fail rate in convincing anybody here except yourself.

I'm done with this thread, but I hope to find you elsewhere in a less combative frame of mind.

...and if I don't, then based on your present lack of respect for the views and opinions of this audience, it won't matter the square root of sweet Fanny Adams to me.

 

[tac]

@tac, I'd like to hear (read) that fable. if it's the one I think, I learned it long ago as the "sparrow and the cow pie."

'tis the same, but in Irish.

 

[P7M13]

Easy peasy! Sweet oblivion of blovation.