AZ immigration law: I guess I'm a conspiracy theory nutjob.

[Father of four]

Question... concerning "anchor babies"; what if ONE of the parents is here legally and/or is a US Citizen? Admittedly, that is a sticky wicket.

I am not sure about that. I do not have all the answers. But it should not just be a given.

 

[bugeye]

The Supreme Court has never explicitly ruled on whether children born in the United States to illegal immigrant parents are entitled to birthright citizenship via the 14th Amendment,[31] although it has generally been assumed that they are.[28] When accorded automatic birthright citizenship based on birth on American soil, a newborn's status is generally unaffected by the legal status or citizenship of that individual's mother or father.

Generally unaffected? It most diffidently should be!!!!

It is too late to even think of putting this genie back in the bottle too, you have more than ten million kids with social security numbers, birth certificates, and citizenship at this moment. You want a redo, not possible dude!

 

[Father of four]

yeah that is probably what they said about slavery.

 

[Father of four]

One of the real problems in this country is that when there is a real problem like these problems, it is easier to say its just to hard and will cost too much instead of doing the right thing.

 

[Trlsmn]

Bugeye, it is hard to find concrete statistics for states expendature. I have found a lot of info, but most you would shoot down because of source. Here are some statistics given by the notoriously conservative source, the LA Times.


"That said, let's be honest: Illegal immigration does cost California taxpayers a substantial wad, undeniably into the billions."

"There are roughly 19,000 illegal immigrants in state prisons, representing 11% of all inmates. That's costing $970 million during the current fiscal year. The feds kick in a measly $111 million, leaving the state with an $859 million tab."

Each tax payer pays roughly $50 per tax payer to incarcerate illegals

"If you figure that the children of illegal immigrants attending K-12 schools approximates the proportion of illegal immigrants in the population, the bill currently comes to roughly $4 billion. Most is state money; some local property taxes."

Each Californian tax payer pays roughly $225 per tax payer to educate children of illegals

"The state is spending $775 million on Medi-Cal healthcare for illegal immigrants, according to the legislative analyst. Of that, $642 million goes into direct benefits"

Each Californian tax payer pays roughly $45 per tax payer to medicate illegals

"So-called emergency services are the biggest state cost: $536 million. Prenatal care is $59 million. Not counted in the overall total is the cost of baby delivery -- $108 million -- because the newborns aren't illegal immigrants.

Each Californian tax payer pays roughly $30 per tax payer for emergency medical services to illegals

"The state also pays $47 million for programs that Washington does not require: Non-emergency care (breast and cervical cancer treatment), $25 million; long-term nursing home care, $19 million; abortions, $3 million."

Each Californian taxpayer pays $2.6

"There also are other taxpayer costs -- especially through local governments -- but those are the biggies for the state. Add them all up and the state spends well over $5 billion a year on illegal immigrants and their families."

Each Californian taxpayer pays $350 per year total for the illegal problem in California!

So the average legal Californian household pay roughly $1000 per year just to take care of the burdens illegals place on the system.

So who wants to show their altruism and send me $1000 pretax dollars as a token of standing up for their ideals?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Each tax payer pays roughly $50 per tax payer to incarcerate illegals



Each Californian tax payer pays roughly $225 per tax payer to educate children of illegals




Each Californian tax payer pays roughly $45 per tax payer to medicate illegals



Each Californian tax payer pays roughly $30 per tax payer for emergency medical services to illegals



Each Californian taxpayer pays $2.6



Each Californian taxpayer pays $350 per year total for the illegal problem in California!

So the average legal Californian household pay roughly $1000 per year just to take care of the burdens illegals place on the system.

So who wants to show their altruism and send me $1000 pretax dollars as a token of standing up for their ideals?

Many CA taxpayers pay those taxes while they cannot even afford to have children of their own...

 

[Blitzkrieg]

WE will shoot more police in Arizona until we get free!

Hardworking undocumented workers, just doing the jobs that Americans won't do.. :nuts:

 

[zeezee]

Hardworking undocumented workers, just doing the jobs that Americans won't do.. :nuts:

I looked at that photo with photo shop and "think" it has been worked. If you look closely at where the two signs are joined they appear "tampered with" and smudged.

 

[zeezee]

Many CA taxpayers pay those taxes while they cannot even afford to have children of their own...

And if they do have kids cannot afford the niceties they had when growing up. $1000 bucks sure would help many families raise there kids.

 

[2zuks]

We need to quantify problems before looking at solutions, otherwise we can end up doing dumb things. This is not a radical idea, it is a sensible idea, used to fix almost anything from a toaster (throw it it it's only $18) to an oil leak 5000 feet below the surface of an ocean.

I agree, however we have to look at all the data and not just tidbits. So far the data has been hidden from us for the most part, partially because of special interest and partly because of a rediculous PC environment.

The children you speak of are mostly citizens, and we can't deport citizens, right? So their education is not even an issue. We can let their parents stay here and raise these citizens for a low cost or we can deport their parents and then the state gets to raise these kids at a very high cost. The other items you list are legit and they do cost, but how much? If this is a non racial economic decision then lets evaluate decisions based on their economic merits.

If we are going to quantify problems, we have to look at the total impact of illegal immigration on our country. If those children are born here, most say that they are citizens, however they are still a cost of illegal immigration because they wouldn't be here otherwise. That is one problem I have with many of the statistics. They don't take into consideration the impact of the offspring of the illegals, which is a big part of the cost. It isn't like we can deport the children who are now citizens, but we have to look at all of the cost to determine our best course for the future.

Also, it is unfair to say I don't want to deal with this problem, as I've said I'm in favor of immunity and granting citizenship to non criminal illegals who have shown themselves to be functional. I've also said that once that is done we need very strict laws that must be enforced to stop anymore inflow of new illegals. Not enforcing laws was done for the benefit of a powerful segment of our system, so we are responsible for this problem, dealing with it by suddenly strictly enforcing these laws is just a moral dodge, another way of being irresponsible. This would not be the action of a country worthy of respect, it would be the action of a country of weasels. We should man up, take responsibility, and fix the problems we have made with a mind toward minimizing the damage.

OK. But I would counter by saying that we need to start enforcing the very strict laws BEFORE we do ANYTHING else. Otherwise the flow of illegals is just going to keep coming, and more than likely increase.

 

[zeezee]

Many CA taxpayers pay those taxes while they cannot even afford to have children of their own...

"all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also"

To me it appears as if a child born in this country of illegal immigrants is NOT a U.S. Citizen and should be deported along with it parents.

http://www.thepostemail.com/2009/10/18/4-supreme-court-cases-define-natural-born-citizen/

 

[bugeye]

yeah that is probably what they said about slavery.

Yes, and that's why they came up with the 14th amendment, lol.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I looked at that photo with photo shop and "think" it has been worked. If you look closely at where the two signs are joined they appear "tampered with" and smudged.

The guy on the blog where I got it did an analysis and thinks it's real

http://www.market-ticker.org/archives/2276-So-THATS-Who-The-Violent-Protestors-Are!.html

 

[bugeye]

I agree, however ....

OK. But I would counter by saying that we need to start enforcing the very strict laws BEFORE we do ANYTHING else. Otherwise the flow of illegals is just going to keep coming, and more than likely increase.

OK, deal I'm calling DC now to arrange the details, lol. Meanwhile you get everyone else to agree.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

"all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also"

To me it appears as if a child born in this country of illegal immigrants is NOT a U.S. Citizen and should be deported along with it parents.

http://www.thepostemail.com/2009/10/18/4-supreme-court-cases-define-natural-born-citizen/

This is my position. The parents have to either be US citizens or here, legally. I would not include green carders but I would include legal immigrants who are sincerely working to gain citizenship. However we are letting in 1 million + immigrants legally each year, 90% from third world countries, and that needs to stop, immediately

 

[Blitzkrieg]

OK, deal I'm calling DC now to arrange the details, lol. Meanwhile you get everyone else to agree.

DC won't do anything without major housecleaning,. That is why the states are acting, and it is going to spread like wildfire because the vast majority of US citizens want our nation emptied of illegals and the borders sealed. We can accomplish things at the state level that are near impossible at the fed level

 

[Trlsmn]

The guy on the blog where I got it did an analysis and thinks it's real

http://www.market-ticker.org/archives/2276-So-THATS-Who-The-Violent-Protestors-Are!.html

Someone probably asked the guy if he "habla inglés" and when he answered no he handed him $20 and the sign. Agent provocateurs can come from either side!

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Someone probably asked the guy if he "habla inglés" and when he answered no he handed him $20 and the sign. Agent provocateurs can come from either side!

Thanks for giving me ideas

 

[Father of four]

This is my position. The parents have to either be US citizens or here, legally. I would not include green carders but I would include legal immigrants who are sincerely working to gain citizenship. However we are letting in 1 million + immigrants legally each year, 90% from third world countries, and that needs to stop, immediately

Parents who are already citizens and parents who have already went threw our countries steps in becoming a citizen seem like the only justified way. Just walking across the border or here with a temporary visa should not give a persons child the right to claim United States citizenship just because they came out of the womb while on U.S soil.

 

[Father of four]

I still stand behind my post I made awhile ago.

This illegal immigration problem needs to come before the American People for votes. The representatives have shown they cannot be trusted and are not doing the will of the People. We the People should decide what laws should be upheld and not just by a few people in black robes either.

The representatives should do The Will Of The People and the courts should enforce it!