National ATF is going after FRT

[American123]

And that is exactly my argument as well. A "single function" is what lawyers are gonna pounce on, because it could be argued that the whole cycle is a "single function", thereby excusing the FRT15 trigger but setting Binary triggers in the crosshair due to the "shoot on pull, shoot on release" mode whereas a "single function" might be defined further as "a single pull and reset/release" of the trigger.

I'm glad they are fighting this, because if the fire rate (which is really the emphasis) can be achieved legally in a semi auto, my hope is it provides sufficient standing to argue the illogical nature of NFA restrictions rendering it null and void for practical purposes of enforcement.

 

[American123]

There was the 1938 Federal Firearms Act and the 1968 Gun Control Act. Out of curiosity, which one I you referencing? (GCA68 superseded FFA38, though some things, like FFLs, carried over.)

Just wondering. Sorry for the tangent.

In theory a tangent should be able to work successfully to the main topic:

Based on my research, the NRA supported the 1938 Federal Firearms Act, which later on was used by politicians as a stepping stone to push further with the 1968 Gun control act. According to my research, the NRA did not openly support the 1968 gun control act, but the precedence set had already been done with the 1938 Federal Firearms Act, a camels nose, if you will.

 

[rdb241]

so is this technique illagal? Pretty damn fast rate of fire......could be a MG.........................

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cowboy+shooting+rifle

 

[aksu747]

Every law regarding firearms enforced by the ATF is an infringement of the 2nd amendment.

 

[wired]

I just watched the video of how this trigger operates and it looks good to go to me. You have to pull the trigger each time to fire it. If the Gov wanted to prohibit a certain rate of fire they should have written the law that way. Of course bump stocks looked kosher to me as well so a judge is probably going to side with the Gov on this trigger determination as well. I hope they fight it to high levels of court anyways. Asking for an injunction would be a good start.

The main difference I see between this and a standard trigger is that a shooter probably can't overcome the reset by holding the trigger back in firing position unless they have really strong fingers. That function was never mentioned as a requirement in the machine gun law, that I am aware of. The intent of the machine gun law as I understand it was to prohibit firearms where the trigger was able to be held back in the firing position and the firearm could continue firearm.

A simple test to determine if a trigger function is legal or not could work like this. You create a mechanical device to squeeze the trigger on a loaded firearm and hold it in the firing position with enough strength to allow for no movement of the trigger after firing. If the firearm continues to fire with trigger held back than they could reasonably consider it a machine gun. In this style of test the FRT would not continue to fire.

Tie a rubber band around that FRT trigger. Release the bolt carrier. It'll run till enpty

 

[arakboss]

Tie a rubber band around that FRT trigger. Release the bolt carrier. It'll run till enpty

Clamp the trigger so it remains in the firing position and is not allowed to reset. A machine gun will continue to fire the FRT will not. The FRT requires the trigger to reset and be pulled again. A machine gun trigger does not.

 

[wired]

Clamp the trigger so it remains in the firing position and is not allowed to reset. A machine gun will continue to fire the FRT will not. The FRT requires the trigger to reset and be pulled again. A machine gun trigger does not.

A Machine gun is whatever the ATF says it is or would you like to explain how an M2 Carbine receiver is a machine gun while an M1 carbine receiver is not.

 

[arakboss]

A Machine gun is whatever the ATF says it is or would you like to explain how an M2 Carbine receiver is a machine gun while an M1 carbine receiver is not.

"A Machine gun is whatever the ATF says it is"

Now you're getting it, welcome to the club.

 

[billdeserthills]

You never released YOUR pull. The bolt carrier releases the trigger after the bolt carrier resets the trigger. YOU are still pulling. When a full auto trigger group is firing the bolt carrier releases the hammer . YOU are still pulling the trigger. The only difference being the FRT trigger oscillates a bit while firing but YOU never actually release YOUR pull.

Pull the carrier back and lock the bolt lock . Put a rubber band on that trigger so its pulled. and release the bolt carrier. What happens?

It runs until the mag is empty. Submit into evidence.

Sounds like this could get rubberbands regulated

Jon Christian Ryter -- ATF Wants to Regulate Chore Boy and 14" Shoelaces

newswithviews.com

 

[wired]

Sounds like this could get rubberbands regulated

Jon Christian Ryter -- ATF Wants to Regulate Chore Boy and 14" Shoelaces

newswithviews.com

Anyone who thinks the ATF isn't going to rule something to be whatever they want it to be because of a slight technicality is delusional.

 

[CamoDeafie]

All the more reason to completely abolish the ATF and repeal NFA1934, GCA1968, and the Hughes Amendment of FOPA1986.

 

[wired]

NFA abolishment

 

[arakboss]

FRT Alternative

Wide Open Trigger - WOT15 Hard Reset FCU

Lead & Steel: Firearms, parts, and accessories built with precision and integrity. Big time products such as Holosun 507k and many more with small time service is what we do best!

lead-steel.com

 

[wired]

FRT Alternative

Wide Open Trigger - WOT15 Hard Reset FCU

Lead & Steel: Firearms, parts, and accessories built with precision and integrity. Big time products such as Holosun 507k and many more with small time service is what we do best!

lead-steel.com

Get'em while the gettin's good. hundred bucks cheaper than FRT

 

[kmk1012]

Get'em while the gettin's good. hundred bucks cheaper than FRT

Guaranteed no worry about AFT (ATF) raids in future for sales records, lol.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

This "non lawyer" says that the trigger "breaks" each shot, remaining semi auto, as opposed to full auto, where the trigger does not break each shot because if the trigger is held down, the trigger mechanism is never engaged again with the sear until the trigger is released, as opposed to the rare breed, where the trigger and sear are engaged and disengaged with each shot determined by the finger applying sufficient force to "break" the shot.

FWIW, a guy can pull back with barely more force than whats needed on an AR with a FRT trigger and the bolt will be held open; until that rearward pressure is released. after the pressure on the trigger is released the bolt will come forward, trigger will reset and it can be fired again.

 

[The Resister]

Well once again. Laws and rules mean what the fed tells you they mean. People love to dance all around this and I hate it but, you can do as they say or you can take your chance. Does not make it "right" but, if you want to tell that to some black robe? They will shrug and lock you up. Now if you have the money and time to fight them for a good while? You may well win. Just make sure its worth it to you before you poke the bear.

Freedom must be fought for and defended. Rare Breed IS fighting back.

 

[The Resister]

Once again the ATF goes after things not used in crime much. You know, because it makes it harder to be precise with shots. The ATF is just concerned about our accuracy at the range. So they want people minding their own business and not commiting crimes to be criminals.



Such a waste of taxpayer money for that agency. If they are going to continue to sadisticly torture the law abiding members of society can we at least get a plaque or a certificate of accomplishment? John Smith has lived through badgering by the ATF on X date and has earned citizen level "patient docile and compliant".

It's a slippery slope with a unwelcome boot.

You could always support H.R. 3960 and not worry about this stuff in the future.

 

[rdb241]

Tie a rubber band around that FRT trigger. Release the bolt carrier. It'll run till enpty

That has already been done with a MILSPEC trigger.......it works.

 

[villagelightsm]

The Feds have LONG just made up rules on the fly. What the "books" say means what they say it means. Just like laws. They mean what a black robe tells you they mean. Feds have done this for a long time. If they do not like something they just say it's now against the law. People can go along or try to take them to court.

The difficulty with the court remedy is the lack of any sanction against the offending people within the agency.
The law provides no penalty for the agency's abuse of its position and power. It provides no penalty against the personnel who knowingly, intentionally, and flagrantly violate the intents and purposes of the highest law in the land, the document which in fact defines and constitutes our very nation. There is a vast difference between having rights and having power. The rights of humankind as we define them have existed for long before our nation existed, but until they were written, recognized, and the People were empowered, they did not matter. Government exists to gather power unto itself, which in fact it does at our expense. Government never returns power to the people unless forced to do so; and then only at the point of a sword or, regrettably, after the shedding of blood. IMHO (In My Humble Observation) of course.