National ATF coming for pistol braces

[The Heretic]

One thing many aren't talking about is dumb bubblegum evil Biden is just following Trumps blueprint. When trump banned bump fire stocks by regime power and not through law. He set the tone. I see all his koolaide drinkers here mad at dumbacrats but retardcans supported their guy when he did this. Here we are. What will come next? An assault weapons ban probably classify it under destructive devices. Thanks 50 year liberal elite anti gun trump for this precedent you set and blue prints for communist and liberals to follow!!!

Trump just took promises to another level and was not very sophisticated about how he made promises. Lying pols have been making promises since LONG before I was born. "Leaders" for even longer.

Do people learn? Very few. The rest (most) believe what they want to believe and ignore reality.

 

[sobo]

I believe one of the Congress Critters did introduce a bill to put Semi auto weapons into the NFA recently, in the last two years? But it got rejected because it wasn't as wide ranging and onerous as the AWB 2.0?

Yes, you are correct. It didn't get far, IIRC.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I expect this point system will be applied to all short barreled firearms one day soon.

Imo this sets the stage to ban assault rifles over time. If u consider 2 things: (1) the ATF redefined what a rifle is based on what you can attach to a pistol, and (2) implemented a points system. These two things together makes it very easy for them to turn all assault rifles into NFA items in the future due to the precedent it creates.

(1) redefining a rifle based on what u can attach to a gun in a completely different category means they can keep redefining things until eventually the definition will exclude what we know as an assault rifle.

(2) the point system is somewhat similar to the 1994 assault rifle ban in that it uses what you attach, or components of the gun, to put it in a NFA category. They can simply create a new assault rifle scorecard (along with the redefinition of what is now an NFA item) such as magazines over 10 rounds, flash hider, pistol grip, etc.

So one can imagine in the future a new redefinition of what guns need an NFA stamp. All they need to do is redefine rifle again (as they are doing in this brace ban administrative rule) and make a new scorecard. All of a sudden all assault rifles would then be NFA items. It is exactly the same process as what they are doing here and if you take it to its logical conclusion and knowing they are politically driven and want to continue to expand the ATF "empire". By "empire" I mean the amount of funding, employees, and extent of control over gun owners.

It a subtle and sequential way to ban assault rifles that needs no congressional approval (unlike a formal "assault weapons ban"). They don't need congress to do it because they can simply redefine rifle again and make a new scorecard. I wouldn't be surprised if there is not already a draft assault weapon NFA scorecard somewhere on ATF servers.

 

[arakboss]

Imo this sets the stage to ban assault rifles over time. If u consider 2 things: (1) the ATF redefined what a rifle is based on what you can attach to a pistol, and (2) implemented a points system. These two things together makes it very easy for them to turn all assault rifles into NFA items in the future due to the precedent it creates.

(1) redefining a rifle based on what u can attach to a gun in a completely different category means they can keep redefining things until eventually the definition will exclude what we know as an assault rifle.

(2) the point system is somewhat similar to the 1994 assault rifle ban in that it uses what you attach, or components of the gun, to put it in a NFA category. They can simply create a new assault rifle scorecard (along with the redefinition of what is now an NFA item) such as magazines over 10 rounds, flash hider, pistol grip, etc.

So one can imagine in the future a new redefinition of what guns need an NFA stamp. All they need to do is redefine rifle again (as they are doing in this brace ban administrative rule) and make a new scorecard. All of a sudden all assault rifles would then be NFA items. It is exactly the same process as what they are doing here and if you take it to its logical conclusion and knowing they are politically driven and want to continue to expand the ATF "empire". By "empire" I mean the amount of funding, employees, and extent of control over gun owners.

It a subtle and sequential way to ban assault rifles that needs no congressional approval (unlike a formal "assault weapons ban"). They don't need congress to do it because they can simply redefine rifle again and make a new scorecard. I wouldn't be surprised if there is not already a draft assault weapon NFA scorecard somewhere on ATF servers.

I agree 110%. Maybe if we keep sending them money, $200 at a time, they won't do that to us.

 

[The Heretic]

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Anyone figure out what stabilizing braces are going to be allowed (KAK Industries Shockwave Blade, Mission First Tactical Battlelink Pistol Stabilizer, SB Tactical, etc.), or are we relegated to sticking a pool noodle on our buffer tubes?

 

[bradsteen]

I seem to recall a point in history when taxation without representation was kind of a big deal (sarcasm intended). The forcing of citizens into SBRing their previously lawful firearms is taxation (via the $200 tax stamp), and the ATF being an administrative entity that can interpret and reinterpret law on a whim and without input from elected officials or the consent of the governed is as close to the definition of "without representation" as I've ever seen. Seriously wondering what legal channels are open to us to fight this ridiculousness.

 

[Rkangel]

Anyone figure out what stabilizing braces are going to be allowed ....?

Yes, as soon as we can figure out what the color 2 smells like.

None of them are intended to be allowed. In the last section of this rule change, they've given themselves a universal "everything can be considered illegal if we say so" clause that pretty much negates any of the "allowed" combinations of the previous sections or points system.

 

[arakboss]

Anyone figure out what stabilizing braces are going to be allowed (KAK Industries Shockwave Blade, Mission First Tactical Battlelink Pistol Stabilizer, SB Tactical, etc.), or are we relegated to sticking a pool noodle on our buffer tubes?

The KAK blade with a strap might make it through the score card. I think we are going to have to wait for manufactures to submit firearms and see how they get scored to know for sure. Tube only will get the job done. If you must have some cheap plastic on the tube, you can always spend $200 to negate some of the infringment by the JBTs at the ATF. Personally I will live with the tube only.

 

[arakboss]

I seem to recall a point in history when taxation without representation was kind of a big deal (sarcasm intended). The forcing of citizens into SBRing their previously lawful firearms is taxation (via the $200 tax stamp), and the ATF being an administrative entity that can interpret and reinterpret law on a whim and without input from elected officials or the consent of the governed is as close to the definition of "without representation" as I've ever seen. Seriously wondering what legal channels are open to us to fight this ridiculousness.

I heard it's just part of the 2A hobby and we should accept it or quit the hobby.

Edit: I heard from the same source that nobody is forcing us to participate in the 2A hobby.

 

[CamoDeafie]

A SCOTUS suit to decide once for all whether Federal "regulationary" agencies have the Constitutional power to create rules and regulations without any Congress involvement would be needed. And it wouldn't be just the ATF, but EPA, OHSA, DOT, FAA, DHS, and so forth....

I am aware that most all of these agencies other than the ATF seem to have Congressional Committees and House Oversight Committees ruling them... but whatever the ATF is doing.. is basically legislating without the Congress being involved.

 

[Diamondback]

I'd like to go stronger--an Amendment that no regulation or rulemaking shall take effect without an up-or-down vote and positive approval by Congress.

 

[Melman]

A SCOTUS suit to decide once for all whether Federal "regulationary" agencies have the Constitutional power to create rules and regulations without any Congress involvement would be needed. And it wouldn't be just the ATF, but EPA, OHSA, DOT, FAA, DHS, and so forth....

I am aware that most all of these agencies other than the ATF seem to have Congressional Committees and House Oversight Committees ruling them... but whatever the ATF is doing.. is basically legislating without the Congress being involved.

Yup Biden is coming after Us and Trump created the blueprint to do this with bumpstock. I said I'm 2017 we are screwed when a liberal gets in and uses this same means.

 

[theewashman]

What would happen if everyone with pistol braces just put stocks on? Mass noncompliance is the often the answer.

 

[Melman]

What would happen if everyone with pistol braces just put stocks on? Mass noncompliance is the often the answer.

They will confiscate many and most likely prosecute the people who can't afford attorneys. That's what most likely will happen. I do t agree with it one bit. But as a person who didn't have gun rights until they were 29 years old because juvenile offenses im not losing mine again. If you that passionate why stop at stock make it full auto and really tell them

 

[theewashman]

They will confiscate many and most likely prosecute the people who can't afford attorneys. That's what most likely will happen. I do t agree with it one bit. But as a person who didn't have gun rights until they were 29 years old because juvenile offenses im not losing mine again. If you that passionate why stop at stock make it full auto and really tell them

There are costs to freedom Funny how a stock and SBA3 both fit on a mil spec buffer tube

 

[Melman]

There are costs to freedom Funny how a stock and SBA3 both fit on a mil spec buffer tube

I done time. Have you ? I can bet most on here would lawyer up and use their privilege faster than they could. Don't talk about it be about it. Make your guns full auto silenced show them on YouTube say you ain't scared it's my right. Show us all how it's done. I'll put some top ramen on your books

 

[theewashman]

I'm not claiming to be a tough guy at all. But if the gun community REALLY wanted gun rights, we would all do it and understand that some people would get punished for the greater good. Just throwing some thoughts out.

 

[Lennie]

I'm not claiming to be a tough guy at all. But if the gun community REALLY wanted gun rights, we would all do it and understand that some people would get punished for the greater good. Just throwing some thoughts out.

Are you nominating yourself to be the sacrificial lamb?

 

[CamoDeafie]

Maybe we should take the time to refresh memories and remind people that Rights are whatever a group of black robed lawyers say they are, and that the US Supreme Court have held over and over that the NFA, GCA, and other Federal gun control laws are "not violating the Federal Constitution".