Are Verticle Pistol Grips Legal On AR Style Pistols?

Discussion in 'Firearm Laws & Legal' started by arakboss, Jul 28, 2018.

  1. arakboss

    arakboss
    Portland, Oregon
    Well-Known Member 2018 Volunteer

    Messages:
    1,514
    Likes Received:
    2,481
    I have heard that verticle fore grips were a no go on AR Pistols but some believed that angle grips were ok. This youtuber believes (and makes a compelling case) that they are legal as long as the weapons overall length is over 26 inches (legally measured). Does that sound legit?

    Edit: Sorry I forgot link to video with this mans case for it being legal:
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
  2. Mygrainman

    Mygrainman
    SW WA
    Welcome to the snipe hunt Gold Supporter

    Messages:
    2,903
    Likes Received:
    9,447
    I am not a lawyer or an ATF agent, nor do I play one on TV, so I’m in no position to give legal advice or permission to alter a weapon in any way...
    Always verify your local laws, and the ATF rules personally!
    That said..
    I have heard the same thing concerning vertical grips and >26” pistols.
    Has to be from the end of the buffer tube to the end of the barrel threads.
    Unless the flash hider/muzzle device is pinned and welded on, it doesn’t count..
    Angled grips are ok on most anything.... at least that’s how I understand it.
     
  3. 308

    308
    East of There
    Coffee drinker/professional sprinkler mover Platinum Supporter

    Messages:
    6,781
    Likes Received:
    19,977
    A forward grip changes the status of a non-dangerous pistol to a really-dangerous pistol and then becomes classified as an “AOW” .....and because of this, it is required to be registered with NFA and a $200 tax stamp needs to be applied.
     
    IOM and CombatMechanic like this.
  4. arakboss

    arakboss
    Portland, Oregon
    Well-Known Member 2018 Volunteer

    Messages:
    1,514
    Likes Received:
    2,481
    It looks like it is still unsettled, we'll see what others have to say. And I feel obligated to post another CN joke since you responded, enjoy this one courtesy of unijokes:
    "Chuck Norris walks into a bar, and as he enters, notices a horse and the end of the bar with a sign on it. Out of curiosity, he approaches the bartender and asks what the deal is with the horse at the end of the bar. The bartender tells him: "The sign says if you can make the horse laugh you'll win $50. Take note though that hundreds of people have tried and no-one has been able to do it." "Get out the money," says Chuck," I'll be right back." So he walks to the end of the bar, whispers something into the horse's ear, and within seconds the horse is laughing hysterically. "That's amazing," said the bartender. "Tell you what, if you can make him cry I'll double your winnings." "Get out the money," says Chuck," I'll be right back." So Chuck walked again over to the horse, came back to the bartender 2 minutes later, and the horse was balling and sobbing like a baby. "Well," replied Chuck Norris, "First I told him a had a bigger d**k than he did. Then I showed him.""
     
  5. Cerberus Group

    Cerberus Group
    Goldendale, WA.
    Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    2,072
    No, installing one turns it into a SBR. Angled and hand stops are ok.
     
    308 likes this.
  6. arakboss

    arakboss
    Portland, Oregon
    Well-Known Member 2018 Volunteer

    Messages:
    1,514
    Likes Received:
    2,481
    I thought a buttstock is required for SBR designation?
     
    CombatMechanic and HB of CJ like this.
  7. Cerberus Group

    Cerberus Group
    Goldendale, WA.
    Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    2,072
    Installing a vertical grip on its own, changes the designation.

    You're correct as well, having an adjustable buttstock also changes the designation.
     
  8. arakboss

    arakboss
    Portland, Oregon
    Well-Known Member 2018 Volunteer

    Messages:
    1,514
    Likes Received:
    2,481
    Check out this letter sent to BATF and specifically Q2 on second page of letter: Can you add a vertical fore-grip to an AR pistol?

    It seems to indicate a grip could be legal on firearm if overall length is over 26 inches. Confusing to me.
     
    The Heretic likes this.
  9. Diamondback

    Diamondback
    Mmm, pizza, CHOMP!
    Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    7,378
    Likes Received:
    15,885
    Once you're above 26", doesn't that make it an "Other Firearm" to ATF like a Remington Tac14 or Mossy Shockwave? ISTR the Thompson foregrip is treated as a Vertical rather than Angled because of its finger cuts so Auto-Ordnance had to add 3" of barrel to the original Pistol Thompsons to make them "Other" and legally have the foregrips...
     
    MasterChief1 and 308 like this.
  10. arakboss

    arakboss
    Portland, Oregon
    Well-Known Member 2018 Volunteer

    Messages:
    1,514
    Likes Received:
    2,481
    I think you are on the right track, check out this link Q2: Can you add a vertical fore-grip to an AR pistol?
     
  11. Diamondback

    Diamondback
    Mmm, pizza, CHOMP!
    Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    7,378
    Likes Received:
    15,885
    @arakboss That link was exactly what I was referring to, it's one of the Determinations I checked when I was planning out my 10.3" and 12.5" pistols. (12.5 is planned for a VFG, not as a grip but as a spare magazine carrier with an AFG mounted in front of it--with an A5 receiver extension, it should be well over 26" from tube-end to crown, the 10.3 just BARELY comes in short with the added 1.6" of a LAW sidefolder plus the SBM4 brace.)
     
  12. IOM

    IOM
    ONP, Wa
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    900
    Likes Received:
    2,172
    If you get pulled over and or stopped, the Officer is not 100% familiar with all the current laws, your getting arrested for having an SBR without the proper tax stamps, you risk the possibility of lockup until the letter can be authenticated, loss of all firearms, loss of many freedoms until proven innocent... Far to many variables on this one, never listen to an internet armchair wannabee...

    NOT WORTH THE RISK...!!!
     
    ron, MasterChief1, Lazyfaire and 4 others like this.
  13. Reno911

    Reno911
    Hillsboro
    Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer 2017 Volunteer 2018 Volunteer

    Messages:
    5,924
    Likes Received:
    12,106
    I love these threads.

    Confused yet!

    Lol.

    Adding an additional vertical grip to a “pistol” under 26” and you are “making” a AOW. All other weapons. See Oregon Quartermasters info below.

    Adding an additional vertical grip to a “firearm” not a pistol nor a rifle by measurements and other silly definitions, that is over 26” from the muzzle, not muzzle device unless permanently pinned and welded, to the end of the buffer tube, not the pistol brace. Where the buffer tube can not be folded or collapsed. Other wise the measurement is to be made with the buffer collapsed which likely is less than 26” so your firearm is a pistol, not a firearm. You can add a vertical grip.

    Though doing so will still likely get you all sorts of self policing gun owners harassing you on your violations and likely never a single officer of the law asking you about its legality.

    Then again, it’s a pretty crazy fine and jail sentence, so is it really worth it?

    You could always add a bipod to the front and use it as a very grip.

    Got to love it!

    Oh and I’m totally an internet lawyer, and have recently had my tarot cards read so I totally know what I’m talking about. 147% legit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
  14. Heyjoe

    Heyjoe
    Idaho
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    900
    Likes Received:
    2,137
    Angled grips were developed in part because of this law prohibiting vert grips on pistols.

    Not a big fan of the man in the video.
     
  15. Cerberus Group

    Cerberus Group
    Goldendale, WA.
    Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    2,072
    But if Venus is in alignment with Jupiter, then you can....

    But if......

    Ugh
     
    Stomper, titsonritz and IOM like this.
  16. 40isforme

    40isforme
    Gresham
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    702
    Likes Received:
    810
    Sorry I’m confused so you can’t carry concealed carry an ar pistol at 26inches or more
     
  17. Reno911

    Reno911
    Hillsboro
    Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer 2017 Volunteer 2018 Volunteer

    Messages:
    5,924
    Likes Received:
    12,106
    I did not know this. Good to know.

    Thanks.
     
  18. AMProducts

    AMProducts
    Desert Southwest
    Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    2,959
    Likes Received:
    2,179
    It becomes an "AOW": "weapon concealable on the person designed to be fired with two hands" same as the MP5K
     
  19. arakboss

    arakboss
    Portland, Oregon
    Well-Known Member 2018 Volunteer

    Messages:
    1,514
    Likes Received:
    2,481
    I usaully only accept advice from people who are 153% legit but I will take your advice under consideration since you had recent tarot card reading.
     
    Stomper and IOM like this.
  20. uberguy

    uberguy
    Bend
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    558
    Ok, I checked with the ATF. Here's what they said...

    "Under the Obama administration, this would be a prosecutable violation.
    Under the Trump administration, this is a legally allowable modification."

    (noting, the preceding claim is realistic sarcasm)
     
    EPS likes this.

Share This Page