Any downside to loading long?

[daved20319]

So for rifles we frequently will go to some pains to determine max COAL in our particular gun, and use that info to make adjustments in seating depth. But what about pistols? I recently started loading for 10mm Auto, and by recent, I mean 30 rounds so far. I was using a Hornady bullet, so used Hornady data, including COAL. Didn't even think to check if my pistol could be loaded longer, but will do so before loading any more ammo for it. I used my pistol barrel as a case gauge (plunk test), as I only have the one 10mm, and don't expect to be adding another any time soon, I'm not concerned about my ammo fitting another pistol. Some of my research has suggested that loading long, if you can, may actually be an advantage in a variety of ways, lower pressure, more powder capacity, and thus higher velocity. Seems a bit like getting something for nothing, so I'm just wondering if I've missed something obvious. Appreciate your input, later.

Dave

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[oremike]

So for rifles we frequently will go to some pains to determine max COAL in our particular gun, and use that info to make adjustments in seating depth. But what about pistols? I recently started loading for 10mm Auto, and by recent, I mean 30 rounds so far. I was using a Hornady bullet, so used Hornady data, including COAL. Didn't even think to check if my pistol could be loaded longer, but will do so before loading any more ammo for it. I used my pistol barrel as a case gauge (plunk test), as I only have the one 10mm, and don't expect to be adding another any time soon, I'm not concerned about my ammo fitting another pistol. Some of my research has suggested that loading long, if you can, may actually be an advantage in a variety of ways, lower pressure, more powder capacity, and thus higher velocity. Seems a bit like getting something for nothing, so I'm just wondering if I've missed something obvious. Appreciate your input, later.

Dave

You can load long as long the rounds fit in the magizine, feed out of the magazine up the feed ramp and fully into the chamber. The plunk test is the last step not the only one.

 

[Mikej]

Curious to hear what the seasoned loaders have to say. Myself, using Montana Gold slugs, I've found the bearing surface on their 9mm offerings are longer than other's slugs because I have to shorten my OAL to suit a couple of my guns. I've had to shorten to 1.070" for a Tanfoglio race gun and to 1.085 for a Kimber pro Aegis of Wifey's. Running .002" from the lands. I adjust OAL to 1.095 for her CZ75. I DO run close to bottom powder weight in the shortened OAL cartridges.

Plunk test is how those AOLs were determined.

 

[Certaindeaf]

They might not work in other guns.

 

[Member 34319]

So many factors play into semi auto pistols precision. It's hard to eliminate all of them really. Hence why getting amazing groups with handguns, especially semi autos can be difficult. There are factors you can't really eliminate, barrel lock up being the worst. Semis lock up close-to but not really the same each cycle. The more precise the pistol, think really tight fitting 1911 (fixed barrel being the obvious best), the better this factor is overcome. Some pistols are made for reliability over precision, so that Glock 20 will eat everything, but at the cost of a 5moa grouping or worse. The next factor in pistol precision that is hard to overcome is bullet consistency. Some projectiles are made to be extremely consistent in terms of one after the other being about identical. Some bullets are made to be cheap and are anything but consistent bullet to bullet. Bullet design plays a factor too, some are made for expansion at the cost of precision. The list goes on.

I tried loading 10mm long, I really saw no difference in precision. Most pistol powders can be compressed, so adding a few thousandths in OAL doesn't necessarily mean extra powder. I only tried loading long to squeeze out more precision, after trying all other means. Mostly because I could, not really out of necessity.

I had the best results with 10mm when I tried sticking to consistency over anything else. Measuring projectiles for weight and dims, same brand cases trimmed to the same specs. Weighing individual powder charges. Trying to get consistent bullet seating depths. Trying to apply the same taper crimp consistently. Etc, and only after all this did I try experimenting with OAL.

Moral of this story, NO, I would say there is no benefit in loading longer. If you want more powder, run a compressed load. You want more precision, look to other factors first before lengthening the OAL that might jeopardize the pistols reliability and magazines reliability.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Revolvers have very long jumps to the rifling. Worse case scenario I can think of would be a .38 Special in a .357 Maximum. Exceptional accuracy is common so I wouldn't stress over an 1/8" or so "jump" from a conventional barrel.

 

[Mikej]

Revolvers have very long jumps to the rifling. Worse case scenario I can think of would be a .38 Special in a .357 Maximum. Exceptional accuracy is common so I wouldn't stress over an 1/8" or so "jump" from a conventional barrel.

Yeah-but, would loading long .38 sp in a .357 revolver be more accurate at 300 yards?

 

[eb in oregon]

Yeah-but, would loading long .38 sp in a .357 revolver be more accurate at 300 yards?

I'm betting no as only a silly person shoots .38 or .357 at 300 yards in anything. Shoot it out of a rifle, it's still a pistol round. And COAL is a guide line, not an absolute. If longer works in your firearms that's all that counts. But don't be surprised if it won't feed in someone else's firearm.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Yeah-but, would loading long .38 sp in a .357 revolver be more accurate at 300 yards?

Probably not. I'm only familiar with the PPC game where .357 guns commonly shoot .38's at 50 yards so given the right bullet, the case should make no difference all other things being equal.

 

[Mikej]

You guys thinkin' I'm serious? Shoulda' gone for 600 yards I guess!

 

[oremike]

The issue with loading revolver cartridges long is the crimp not being in the crimp groove and creating the possability of bullet jump locking up the revolver.

 

[Hueco]

So many factors play into semi auto pistols precision. It's hard to eliminate all of them really. Hence why getting amazing groups with handguns, especially semi autos can be difficult. There are factors you can't really eliminate, barrel lock up being the worst. Semis lock up close-to but not really the same each cycle. The more precise the pistol, think really tight fitting 1911 (fixed barrel being the obvious best), the better this factor is overcome. Some pistols are made for reliability over precision, so that Glock 20 will eat everything, but at the cost of a 5moa grouping or worse. The next factor in pistol precision that is hard to overcome is bullet consistency. Some projectiles are made to be extremely consistent in terms of one after the other being about identical. Some bullets are made to be cheap and are anything but consistent bullet to bullet. Bullet design plays a factor too, some are made for expansion at the cost of precision. The list goes on.

I tried loading 10mm long, I really saw no difference in precision. Most pistol powders can be compressed, so adding a few thousandths in OAL doesn't necessarily mean extra powder. I only tried loading long to squeeze out more precision, after trying all other means. Mostly because I could, not really out of necessity.

I had the best results with 10mm when I tried sticking to consistency over anything else. Measuring projectiles for weight and dims, same brand cases trimmed to the same specs. Weighing individual powder charges. Trying to get consistent bullet seating depths. Trying to apply the same taper crimp consistently. Etc, and only after all this did I try experimenting with OAL.

Moral of this story, NO, I would say there is no benefit in loading longer. If you want more powder, run a compressed load. You want more precision, look to other factors first before lengthening the OAL that might jeopardize the pistols reliability and magazines reliability.

Same finding with PCC's?

 

[Member 34319]

Same finding with PCC's?

To some extent no. PCCs have, for the most part, fixed barrels. That and longer barrels which aid in more consistent powder burns and somewhat better velocity consistencies. So they are in a different category. However they still suffer from bullet design/consistency. Which lack of components available, I've been very limited in testing the limits of 9mms preciseness via a bolt action chambered in it. I hope to try factory loads and some better handloads in time as they become better available.

 

[Certaindeaf]

The issue with loading revolver cartridges long is the crimp not being in the crimp groove and creating the possability of bullet jump locking up the revolver.

No one suggested loading revolver cartridges long. If one wanted to though, you could crimp into a grease groove or if it's jacketed, roll a crimp groove where you want it.

 

[flashpan]

I've be hand loading since I was 12...and I retired 3 years ago. So I will continue to load as Long as I can. Hope this helps.

 

[daved20319]

Thanks, guys, good info all, although I'm not at all sure how the revolvers got into the conversation . But I think I'll stick to book COAL's for now. Later.

Dave

 

[Certaindeaf]

Thanks, guys, good info all, although I'm not at all sure how the revolvers got into the conversation . But I think I'll stick to book COAL's for now. Later.

Dave

Distance to leade is why.

 

[Catfishmoon]

Thanks, guys, good info all, although I'm not at all sure how the revolvers got into the conversation . But I think I'll stick to book COAL's for now. Later.

Dave

Sticking to published reloading data from the manufactures seems like a good choice.

 

[Darkstar7]

A bit of my own experience here. I've been using an OAL of 1.150 for most of my 9mm rounds in recent years - seems to work well in just about everything I've used it in - until.... I picked up a Colt 9mm Competition 1911 (Series 80 version) a while back. First time out with that gun, tried using the 1.150 rounds and discovered two things - one, the nose of the bullets were rubbing the forward inside edge of the magazine (Tripp Cobra mags) and two, trying to extract the last unfired round from the chamber required inordinate amounts of force. Long story short, the rounds were not freely chambering on their own - there was sufficient energy in the slide action to hammer them home enough to get it into battery - but in reality, the bullets were engaging the barrel rifling long before the round was fully chambered. Actual measurement determined that the max OAL I can run in that particular pistol is 1.120 for the bullet profile I normally use. Reducing the OAL to 1.120 also eliminated the magazine rubbing issue as well.

 

[Mikej]

Thanks, guys, good info all, although I'm not at all sure how the revolvers got into the conversation . But I think I'll stick to book COAL's for now. Later.

Dave

Sticking to published reloading data from the manufactures seems like a good choice.

What the reloading manuals print is just the results they got from the combination of components they used. There are other combinations of components that may be appropriate. A person must keep in mind changing components and OAL can/will change the final result.
Sometimes a person my find that some published data may not work in some firearms.