Alec Baldwin Fires Prop Gun that Kills Individual on Movie Set

[RX-79G]

Source?

Source for an opinion about how a group of people might react to a hypothetical situation? I'm the source.

 

[RX-79G]

Google is your friend. A quick search brings up a few articles with references to armorers in the industry, their take on the "Rust" incident, and standard film-set protocol.

Believe it or not, I have tried looking for this quite a bit, and just go in circle because most articles refer to union rules - but I can't find those rules.

I've seen quite a few discussions on CourtTV and the like, and many of the "industry experts" they'll have on don't seem to have their facts right, getting details of how certain weapons work and the like.

So while I have been exposed to an awful lot of opinions about how things should work, I have yet to see an actual set of rules that are written down like the way IDPA rules are documented.

I don't think the Rust accident is an example of people doing things correctly, I just think that the DP putting herself in front of the muzzle was a critical choice made by the person actually controlling the weapon, rather than just holding it. But that's opinion.

 

[RX-79G]

You are so insistent on everyone else providing sources for their information, yet I'm having troubles finding any sources you have provided to support your statements.

The "what's your source??" game is fun, but it takes two to play! Maybe lead by example?

Where have I demanded a source, and where did I state a contested fact without a source? I looked up and downloaded the Mag Ban law and summarized it. I provided a link to the FBI homicide database in another thread and referenced it.

Your impression seems to be in error.

 

[EUGENE the REALTOR]

Didn't realize there were so many movie set legal experts on this gun forum!

 

[RX-79G]

Didn't realize there were so many movie set legal experts on this gun forum!

I assure you I am not among them.

 

[EUGENE the REALTOR]

I'm not sure who's in the wrong, but I agree that if we were talking about Clint Eastwood, it would be a very different conversation here.

 

[RX-79G]

Here's the SAG guidelines. It has a section on pointing guns at people and using live ammo:

https://www.sagaftra.org/files/safety_bulletins_amptp_part_1_9_3_0.pdf

 

[mhayd93]

Where have I demanded a source, and where did I state a contested fact without a source? I looked up and downloaded the Mag Ban law and summarized it. I provided a link to the FBI homicide database in another thread and referenced it.

Your impression seems to be in error.

What are you quoting this protocol from?

 

[bbbass]

Nope, probably not.
I managed to set myself on fire once.
Didn't cotton to it much, upon reflection afterwards.
Don't feel any burnin' urge to try that again...

I burned up 25% of my torso and hand when I was seven years old.... I think the position of "burning stunt man" is prolly not on my wish list for occupations.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

I'm not sure who's in the wrong, but I agree that if we were talking about Clint Eastwood, it would be a very different conversation here.

Which is freaking hilarious when you find out Clint's views on gun control aren't that different than Baldwins

Political life of Clint Eastwood - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Views on gun control[edit]

Despite being both a gun enthusiast[26] and heavily associated with firearms in his Westerns and police movies, Eastwood has publicly endorsed gun control since at least 1973. In the April 24, 1973, edition of The Washington Post, the star said, "I'm for gun legislation myself. I don't hunt."[27] Two years later, in 1975, Eastwood told People magazine that he favors "gun control to some degree."[28] About a year later, Eastwood remarked that "All guns should be registered. I don't think legitimate gun owners would mind that kind of legislation. Right now the furor against a gun law is by gun owners who are overreacting. They're worried that all guns are going to be recalled. It's impossible to take guns out of circulation, and that's why firearms should be registered and mail-order delivery of guns halted."[29] In 1993, he noted that he "...was always a backer" of the Brady Bill, with its federally mandated waiting period.[30] In 1995, Eastwood questioned the purpose of assault weapons. Larry King, the television host and newspaper columnist, wrote in the May 22, 1995, edition of USA Today that "my interview with Eastwood will air on 'Larry King Weekend' ... I asked him his thoughts on the NRA and gun control and he said that while people think of him as pro-gun, he has always been in favor of controls. 'Why would anyone need or want an assault weapon?' he said."[31]

 

[bbbass]

@RX-79G

You stated the law enforcement said that the gun going off w/o pulling the trigger is possible with the weapon used on set.

Actually, as previously discussed in this thread, the local DA or ADA and a LE buddy used one of the buddy's SAA handguns that was dissimilar to the one used on set, AND the informal test was NOT equivalent to CSI testing the ACTUAL handgun used.

If there is an update to these facts where the CSI did do testing, I would sure like to know!!

 

[RX-79G]

From the SAG Safety bulletin section on blank firing with firearms:

Page 14:

Refrain from pointing a handgun at anyone, including yourself. If it is absolutely necessary to do so on camera, consult the property master... ...or other safey representative.

Page 17:

These guidelines are intended to give recommendations, special guidelines, and conditions for the safe handling of firearms utilizing "LIVE AMMUNITION".

So @mhayd93, I politely requested a source in this case because @RedRover was stating some things that ran contrary to things I had heard. It wasn't until l searched for SAG documents that I found anything. And what I found runs contrary to what RedRover stated as fact. So you'll forgive me for asking.

 

[RX-79G]

@RX-79G

You stated the law enforcement said that the gun going off w/o pulling the trigger is possible with the weapon used on set.

Actually, as previously discussed in this thread, the local DA or ADA and a LE buddy used one of the buddy's SAA handguns that was dissimilar to the one used on set, AND the informal test was NOT equivalent to CSI testing the ACTUAL handgun used.

If there is an update to these facts where the CSI did do testing, I would sure like to know!!

Thank you for the update. That was the last thing I heard on TV about that portion of the investigation. I'm not shocked that investigators keep getting firearms stuff wrong.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

"The idea that the person holding the gun and causing it to discharge is not responsible is absurd to me," Matt Hutchins, Halyna's husband, told Today's Hoda Kotb in an interview on February 24. "Watching him I just felt so angry. I was just so angry to see him talk about her death so publicly in such a detailed way and then to not accept any responsibility after having just described killing her."

‘Rust’ Armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed Claims Exoneration After OSHA Report On Fatal Film Shooting Puts Safety Violations Blame On Producers & Supervisors

Rust armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed is declaring a degree of vindication after a vital safety report's release Wednesday.

deadline.com

 

[edzz]

Believe it or not, I have tried looking for this quite a bit, and just go in circle because most articles refer to union rules - but I can't find those rules.

I've seen quite a few discussions on CourtTV and the like, and many of the "industry experts" they'll have on don't seem to have their facts right, getting details of how certain weapons work and the like.

So while I have been exposed to an awful lot of opinions about how things should work, I have yet to see an actual set of rules that are written down like the way IDPA rules are documented.

I don't think the Rust accident is an example of people doing things correctly, I just think that the DP putting herself in front of the muzzle was a critical choice made by the person actually controlling the weapon, rather than just holding it. But that's opinion.

So... If a general is riding in a jeep and a private is driving it who is the person actually controlling the jeep, rather than just riding in it. If the general tells the private to turn left NOW who will the general blame for hitting a pothole?

As a pilot if the tower tells you to do something that you know will have bad results are you absolved of the result if you knowingly follow a bad command?

 

[RX-79G]

So... If a general is riding in a jeep and a private is driving it who is the person actually controlling the jeep, rather than just riding in it. If the general tells the private to turn left NOW who will the general blame for hitting a pothole?

As a pilot if the tower tells you to do something that you know will have bad results are you absolved of the result if you knowingly follow a bad command?

"Know will have bad results" is the key. If Baldwin is being told to do something that doesn't violate a strict rule and he has been told the gun was checked and cold, does he "know" there will be a bad result when the DP tells him to point it at the camera, where she happens to be standing?

This is not the same as saying that nothing bad could have happened, and it is therefore shocking something did. But if a person has a reasonable assurance that the people directing him have a superior understanding of the situation, it is like a pilot being directed to turn into another aircraft that they cannot see by the tower in bad weather.

30 years ago an RO called hot range when I was still pasting my target. Had someone looked right at me and fired, it would have been the shooter's fault. But if someone on the other side of the bay didn't see me, fired and their round ricocheted into me, that RO would have been primarily responsible.

 

[RicInOR]

Sorry if I missed this but finding 8 new pages in this thread this morning was not expected.

Some may "duplicate" - same story different host

.

Alec Baldwin Boasts About ‘Rust’ Shooting Report He Claims ‘Exonerates’ Him

Alec Baldwin Breaks Silence on ‘Rust’ Investigation, ‘Grateful’ that Report ‘Exonerates’ Him

The "Rust" star and executive producer shared a statement from his attorney amid the investigation into cinematographer Halyna Hutchins' fatal shooting on set.

news.yahoo.com

Alec Baldwin says New Mexico report on fatal 'Rust' shooting 'exonerates' him in statement through lawyer

Alec Baldwin said he was “grateful” for New Mexico’s investigation into the fatal on-set shooting during the production of his ill-fated film “Rust” last fall, claiming that the state’s report “exonerates” him.

www.foxnews.com

Alec Baldwin Boasts About ‘Rust’ Shooting Report He Claims ‘Exonerates’ Him

A New Mexico state agency fined Rust Movie Productions a maximum fine Wednesday for workplace safety violations that led to the shooting.

www.forbes.com

Alec Baldwin Makes Incredibly Bold Claim After New Report on Fatal Shooting Drops - US Wall Post

Alec Baldwin is now claiming to be “exonerated” of any wrongdoing in his fatal shooting of a set member that occurred in late 2021. The D-list actor, a

uswallpost.com

Alec Baldwin Bizarrely Claims He's Exonerated After 'Rust' Production Fined for Failure to Act on Gun Safety Hazards

In a bizarre message posted to his Twitter account, Alec Baldwin has claimed that he has been exonerated for the shooting death of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on the set of the movie Rust, citing New Mexico's decision on Wednesday to slap the maximum fine on the production company behind the...

www.breitbart.com

No, New Report Doesn't 'Exonerate' Alec Baldwin, Despite What He Claims

redstate.com

 

[RicInOR]

OHSB Rust Workplace Fatality Investigation

Overview - links to download report etc.

OHSB Rust Workplace Fatality Investigation

Press Release PDF

Rust Movie Productions issued 'Willful' citation for Halyna Hutchins' avoidable death on set Rust Movie Productions, LLC receives maximum citation for plain indifference to recognized hazards associated with use of firearms on set

https://www.env.nm.gov/occupational_health_safety/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2022/04/2022-04-20-COMMS-NMED-releases-OHSB-report-into-shooting-on-set-of-Rust-Final.pdf

 

[RX-79G]

OHSB Rust Workplace Fatality Investigation

Overview - links to download report etc.

OHSB Rust Workplace Fatality Investigation

Press Release PDF

Rust Movie Productions issued 'Willful' citation for Halyna Hutchins' avoidable death on set Rust Movie Productions, LLC receives maximum citation for plain indifference to recognized hazards associated with use of firearms on set

https://www.env.nm.gov/occupational_health_safety/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2022/04/2022-04-20-COMMS-NMED-releases-OHSB-report-into-shooting-on-set-of-Rust-Final.pdf

It's funny, the OHSB misquotes or misunderstands the Guidelines it refers to. Per the document's "Live ammuntion" guidelines, I don't know if the Rust set constitutes a "studio lot or stage". Rust was being filmed out in the desert, which is much like where live ammo filming is allowed.

$137k is nothing, really, so it is not worth it for the Rust production to fight the ruling.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

It's funny, the OHSB misquotes or misunderstands the Guidelines it refers to. Per the document's "Live ammuntion" guidelines, I don't know if the Rust set constitutes a "studio lot or stage". Rust was being filmed out in the desert, which is much like where live ammo filming is allowed.

$137k is nothing, really, so it is not worth it for the Rust production to fight the ruling.

Especially given that it is almost 100% that the production company has insurance that will cover it