Alec Baldwin: on-set 'Rust' shooting - NEW UPDATE

[Spitpatch]

What was the gun ?

can't recall. this incident occ 15-20 yrs ago? Relatively famous actor, too.

 

[RedRover]

Been beaten to death; the 4 rules do not apply on a film set. This is a special place where gun like objects are pointed at others and triggers are pulled because that is what is needed to capture a fantasy scene for film. It is up to the production team (not the actors!) to ensure that this can be done with 100% confidence and safety, and that is why an armorer is employed. They are the person/team dedicated to making sure that every firearm (or firearm like prop) is configure in such a way that it cannot hurt anyone during the scene for which it was configured. In a properly run set, and for the props they are responsible for, their word is law.

I vehemently disagree.
The '4 rules' apply anytime and everywhere; ALWAYS.

 

[Spitpatch]

What was the gun ?

Google suggests Brandon Lee on the set of "The Crow"

 

[lucusloc]

I vehemently disagree.
The '4 rules' apply anytime and everywhere; ALWAYS.

Well you are disagreeing with an extensive history, dozens and dozens of well produced, well regarded and classic movies, and hundreds or even thousands of professionals who know way more about the topic than any of us here. If they say they have another rule set that keeps people safe on sets (when followed!) I am going to trust that they got it right. They do have a pretty impressive catalog to back that up.

 

[IndyPrepper]

What was the gun ?

.44 Magnum

John Erik-Hexum

On October 12, 1984, the cast and crew of Cover Up were filming the seventh episode of the series, "Golden Opportunity", on Stage 18 of the 20th Century Fox lot. One of the scenes filmed that day called for Hexum's character to load cartridges into a .44 Magnum handgun, so he was provided with a functional gun and blanks. When the scene did not play as the director wanted it to in the master shot, there was a delay in filming. Hexum became restless and impatient during the delay and began playing around to lighten the mood. He had unloaded all but one (blank) round, spun it, and—simulating Russian roulette—he put the revolver to his right temple and pulled the trigger, unaware of the danger.[9]

 

[Spitpatch]

I vehemently disagree.
The '4 rules' apply anytime and everywhere; ALWAYS.

Except when James Arness and Arvo Ojala walked out into the street.

 

[wired]

.44 Magnum

John Erik-Hexum

On October 12, 1984, the cast and crew of Cover Up were filming the seventh episode of the series, "Golden Opportunity", on Stage 18 of the 20th Century Fox lot. One of the scenes filmed that day called for Hexum's character to load cartridges into a .44 Magnum handgun, so he was provided with a functional gun and blanks. When the scene did not play as the director wanted it to in the master shot, there was a delay in filming. Hexum became restless and impatient during the delay and began playing around to lighten the mood. He had unloaded all but one (blank) round, spun it, and—simulating Russian roulette—he put the revolver to his right temple and pulled the trigger, unaware of the danger.[9]

That's the caliber not the gun used on a different dumb actor incident. What was the gun Baldwin had?

 

[Spitpatch]

.44 Magnum

John Erik-Hexum

On October 12, 1984, the cast and crew of Cover Up were filming the seventh episode of the series, "Golden Opportunity", on Stage 18 of the 20th Century Fox lot. One of the scenes filmed that day called for Hexum's character to load cartridges into a .44 Magnum handgun, so he was provided with a functional gun and blanks. When the scene did not play as the director wanted it to in the master shot, there was a delay in filming. Hexum became restless and impatient during the delay and began playing around to lighten the mood. He had unloaded all but one (blank) round, spun it, and—simulating Russian roulette—he put the revolver to his right temple and pulled the trigger, unaware of the danger.[9]

That's it! Brandon Lee's death was a bit weird, and not well-explained, but illustrates that functional firearms are (most) often also the blank-firing guns on a movie set.

A live round (necessary for a previous scene) had left the bullet lodged in the barrel. (A not uncommon occurrence in well-worn guns with light loads). A subsequent blank propelled the bullet just hard enough to kill Lee.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

The facts as I understand them, is that Baldwin was doing a dry-run rehearsal on cocking the gun. I wasn't familiar with the colt 45 single action army, so had to do some research. From what I gather, the firing pin rests on the primer of the round if the chamber below it is loaded..not good. Hickock did a good video explaing how back in the day, most people would load only 5 rounds.

The gun has a half cock, which allows the cylinder to turn, and a full cock which allows the trigger to be fully pulled hence firing the round.

Baldwin says he didn't "pull". the trigger. I tend to believe him. But I believe he did have his finger applying pressure to it, which allowed the sear to disengage..prior to pulling the hammer back. Here's a demo of how the gun could have fired. Fast forward to 13:16.

I agree that's what happened. Unbeknownst to Baldwin, a live round was in that chamber. In my mind the responsibility lies in the armorer who failed to check that weapon before handing it to Baldwin.

Responsibility also goes to whomever allowed live ammunition anywhere near that set. It got there somehow. I'm still waiting for the facts to come out on that.

As far as Baldwins legal responsibility as a producer, I frankly don't know. My guess would be a civil liability..but not criminal.

The criminal is the one who put live rounds in that gun, and/or, failed to check it one last time before handing it to Baldwin.

As many have said before, a perfect storm happened that day.

Edit. I still think Baldwin's a d-bag..but d-bags still have legal rights..and least for now.

Not a perfect storm at all. A long sh!t show of gross negligence where unintended discharges happened on set before and people complained about it, which Baldwin ignored. It's no wonder that live rounds were found in the gun, in 2 different bandoliers the actors wore, and in the blanks box.

Peopel shooting real rounds on the set with the prop guns then putting them back.

Baldwin cutting corners and not hiring a real armorer but an inexperienced failed "model" instead. Not only does coke on the set but pointed guns at people herself. Allowed Baldwin to use gun as a pointing stick pointing at people. Allowed people to take the guns out for live fire and put them back. Said she checks for live vs blanks by "I just kind of look at the front of the cylinder". He also gave her two jobs one as prop master to save $.

Baldwin hiring an associate director (the one who handed him the gun) who was fired from a previous movie for multiple unintended discharges of firearms.

Baldwin not following any of the accepted safety practices, doing everything on the cheap and rushing to save production money at the cost of safety.

And all that is before we get to Baldwin even touching the gun in the involuntary manslaughter he committed.

 

[Flopsweat]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure, based on this

Oh that. Show me where I accused you.

 

[Spitpatch]

Stop it. I'm tellin' Dad, and if you cry, we'll both get in trouble.

 

[IndyPrepper]

That's the caliber not the gun used on a different dumb actor incident. What was the gun Baldwin had?

45 Colt (.45 Long Colt) caliber F.lli Pietta single-action revolver, Model 1873 SA (Californian), Serial Number E52277

FBI Document Page 5

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Oh that. Show me where I accused you.

How about you show me where I accused you of accusing me?

For folks skipping pages, here is what I said

Dude . . why on God's green earth do you think anyone is making any excuses for him?!?!?!?

The debate here isn't if he should be held reasonable or not, or even if he's 'guilty' or not, the only disagreement is if the ACTUAL rules and laws in place make it more likely to hold him accountable in his role as the actor or as the producer.

Pretty clear I didn't suggest you were accusing ME, I just asked were you saw anyone making excuses

 

[wired]

45 Colt (.45 Long Colt) caliber F.lli Pietta single-action revolver, Model 1873 SA (Californian), Serial Number E52277

FBI Document Page 5

Yeah, thats the same as a Colt action wise. No transfer bar and floating firing pin.

 

[orygun]

Yeah, thats the same as a Colt action wise. No transfer bar and floating firing pin.

By floating, I assume you mean a firing pin mounted in the frame, but it is a hammer mounted firing pin in the gun Baldwin used.

 

[wired]

By floating, I assume you mean a firing pin mounted in the frame, but it is a hammer mounted firing pin in the gun Baldwin used.

The pins are called floating when they pivot on the hammer. Its a firing pin that can be changed without changing the entire hammer.

 

[Flopsweat]

How about you show me where I accused you of accusing me?

For folks skipping pages, here is what I said

Pretty clear I didn't suggest you were accusing ME, I just asked were you saw anyone making excuses

There it is in black and white:

Dude . . why on God's green earth do you think anyone is making any excuses for him?!?!?!?
...

 

[Andy54Hawken]

How bout the back and forth stops...

Y'all ain't gonna ever solve anything or convince one another of any damn thing.

Lets get back to the OP ( such as it is ) and stay with that.
Andy

 

[Flopsweat]

Back on topic: Baldwin is a murderer and should rot in jail.

 

[lucusloc]

Back on topic: Baldwin is a murderer and should rot in jail.

I very much doubt anyone disagrees with that. The main points of contention seem to be how to get him there and what the roots of his moral and legal liability are (Hint; as the recent conviction of the armorer demonstrate they are most definitely different than if he had shot someone in his living room, accidentally or otherwise).