AK knowledge and help

[Boboclown]

Nice

So, what about ammunition? What should the caliber be? Take in consideration current and possible future ammunition issues.

7.62x39 or 5.56. 7.62x39 is still cheaper but 5.56 has more options.

5.45 is an investment to get into, most of the rifles in 5.45 are expensive. Cheapest would be the old imported Romanian ones.

 

[The Heretic]

Nice

So, what about ammunition? What should the caliber be? Take in consideration current and possible future ammunition issues.

If you are going down the AK road, having an AK in 7.62x39 and 5.56x45 are the typical/common chamberings to have. Indeed, if you want a 7.62x39 semi (or full) auto, then an AK is preferable to the AR. I personally do not see much advantage in the USA to the 5.45x39 with regards to availability - at least for prepping anyway. I know it has its fans, but 5.56x45 is a lot more common and mags/ammo/etc. more available.

The 7.62x51 Kalashnikov pattern rifles are not very standardized with regards to parts and mags, and some that are kind of standardized (within their own brand/style) like Valmet or Galil, are expensive for the rifle and parts - being imports parts can be hard to find and expensive. The reason I sold my Valmets was the AWB ('94) banned import of the rifles and mags and IIRC, parts. Mags shot up over $200 if you could find them. Getting parts/mags/etc. for an FN-FAL is easy peasy by comparison - pretty much anywhere in the world.

 

[AK0perator47]

I.O quality, only with import stamp.

So basically the company I.O. put in a facility in the same town as Fabryka Broni in hopes that people will get their firearms thinking it's the same quality as F.B. because both are from Radom Poland?

 

[Knobgoblin]

7.62x39 or 5.56. 7.62x39 is still cheaper but 5.56 has more options.

5.45 is an investment to get into, most of the rifles in 5.45 are expensive. Cheapest would be the old imported Romanian ones.

This is one of those funny situations I find myself in.
No more 7n6 is being imported, and everyone is supposedly hoarding it. I keep slipping and falling into cans and crates of it . At the same price (or even less) than 2019.

I know it's no comparison to 10 years ago, but nothing is as cheap as it was a decade back .
I've actually paid a bit more for my one case of Golden Tiger 5.45 than any of my 7n6 . And the only reason I nutted up on that was to have something to shoot. Now my supposed head stash of surplus is 5k rds or maybe closer to 6. And my commercial rounds are barely over 2000.

 

[AK0perator47]

If you are going down the AK road, having an AK in 7.62x39 and 5.56x45 are the typical/common chamberings to have. Indeed, if you want a 7.62x39 semi (or full) auto, then an AK is preferable to the AR. I personally do not see much advantage in the USA to the 5.45x39 with regards to availability - at least for prepping anyway. I know it has its fans, but 5.56x45 is a lot more common and mags/ammo/etc. more available.

The 7.62x51 Kalashnikov pattern rifles are not very standardized with regards to parts and mags, and some that are kind of standardized (within their own brand/style) like Valmet or Galil, are expensive for the rifle and parts - being imports parts can be hard to find and expensive. The reason I sold my Valmets was the AWB ('94) banned import of the rifles and mags and IIRC, parts. Mags shot up over $200 if you could find them. Getting parts/mags/etc. for an FN-FAL is easy peasy by comparison - pretty much anywhere in the world.

All great and valid points!

 

[The Heretic]

7.62x39 or 5.56. 7.62x39 is still cheaper but 5.56 has more options.

Yes, choices of quality expanding 7.62x39 ammo (primarily SP) in brass cases is limited. Lots of "soft point" and HP euro/Russian ammo out there, but most of it is bi-metal jackets (steel with copper wash/plating) and you take your chances as to whether it is good defensive/hunting ammo. Comparatively, Hornady, Federal and Winchester make good 7.62x39 soft point ammo, but it is considerably more expensive than euro/et. al. ammo, and limited in availability right now (I have 1K rounds of Hornady SST steel case, and when the panic eases I will be buying more American made 7.62x39, but right now most of my 7.62x39 is either Russian or Czech).

Just the same, for defensive and medium game hunting purposes, I prefer 7.62x39 over 5.56x45.

 

[Boboclown]

If you are going down the AK road, having an AK in 7.62x39 and 5.56x45 are the typical/common chamberings to have. Indeed, if you want a 7.62x39 semi (or full) auto, then an AK is preferable to the AR. I personally do not see much advantage in the USA to the 5.45x39 with regards to availability - at least for prepping anyway. I know it has its fans, but 5.56x45 is a lot more common and mags/ammo/etc. more available.

The 7.62x51 Kalashnikov pattern rifles are not very standardized with regards to parts and mags, and some that are kind of standardized (within their own brand/style) like Valmet or Galil, are expensive for the rifle and parts - being imports parts can be hard to find and expensive. The reason I sold my Valmets was the AWB ('94) banned import of the rifles and mags and IIRC, parts. Mags shot up over $200 if you could find them. Getting parts/mags/etc. for an FN-FAL is easy peasy by comparison - pretty much anywhere in the world.

I have a .308 vepr with rpk folding stock, haven't shot it yet. All I can say is it feels nice, but IMHO I'm probably better off selling it.

So basically the company I.O. put in a facility in the same town as Fabryka Broni in hopes that people will get their firearms thinking it's the same quality as F.B. because both are from Radom Poland?

Nah, its another company they imported rifles from.

This is one of those funny situations I find myself in. No more 7n6 is being imported, and everyone is supposedly hoarding it. I keep slipping and falling into cans and crates of it . At the same price (or even less) than 2019.

I know it's no comparison to 10 years ago, but nothing is as cheap as it was a decade back .
I've actually paid a bit more for my one case of Golden Tiger 5.45 than any of my 7n6 . And the only reason I nutted up on that was to have something to shoot. Now my supposed head stash of surplus is 5k rds or maybe closer to 6. And my commercial rounds are barely over 2000.

Price ammo? Not bad. Price of rifles and mags? That's where it hurts.

 

[Knobgoblin]

5.45 mags are still about the same locally.
Maybe more wear on the circle 10s and 21s as they make the rounds.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Longwalk had a great point. Think about an AK as a farm implement. I have a couple old Marlin 30 30s from the 50s that I don't want any more wear on. I have multiple AKS that I don't mind playing with outside.
Maybe not the Haley Gross Motor Skill Reload , but that's just cuz I'm too old and slow.

 

[The Heretic]

I have a .308 vepr with rpk folding stock, haven't shot it yet. All I can say is it feels nice, but IMHO I'm probably better off selling it.

The Valmets I owned were both in 7.62x51 - this was early to late 90s. They used a modified/custom HK 91 mag (different feed lips/etc., but the body was HK91). One was RPK style, heavy long barrel with bipod, etc., the other was a para folder. I loved them both, but the practicality of owning them sucked due to not being able to get mags or parts for the foreseeable future.

I looked at a lot of the other AK pattern 7.62x51 adaptations at the time, and they each seemed to be a bit different with regards to mags and parts. I was hoping to maybe use their mags, but no luck there. Hence my impression that there was little to no standardization - each manufacturer/importer was kind of doing their own thing. I also had no idea of how well these other rifles actually worked, or even if any military used them in combat - whereas the Valmet, Galil (and SA variants) were issued and used by military forces. FN-FAL is much more common and widely used by many militaries for decades in multiple conflicts - with known results.

At least with 7.62x39, 5.56x45 and 5.45x39 AK rifles, there is some standardization for mags and usually parts (bolts, extractors, springs, etc.).

 

[AK0perator47]

Nah, its another company they imported rifles from.

So Inter Ordnance imports AK's from Pioneer Arms? Which then makes me wonder if PA started in Radom because of the military manufacturing facility? Thinking maybe it's trying to ride the coattails of their quality and name? Or maybe like how the Chinese SKS were made for the military and they also had other facilities making not quite as good quality for the US market!

 

[Boboclown]

So Inter Ordnance imports AK's from Pioneer Arms? Which then makes me wonder if PA started in Radom because of the military manufacturing facility? Thinking maybe it's trying to ride the coattails of their quality and name? Or maybe like how the Chinese SKS were made for the military and they also had other facilities making not quite as good quality for the US market!

Trying to ride the coat tails. No idea if I.O is the one importing them or current, originally they were.

 

[AK0perator47]

Ok so here's some interesting questions. Chrome Lined Barrel? Yes? Or not necessary? What purpose does it serve? Is it more accurate? Corrosion resistant? Better than Nitride? Better than melonite? Better at dissipating heat? Is your response factual or just your experience? Were AK rifles chrome lined originally? Is it possible that they were lined because of the US market?

 

[The Heretic]

Ok so here's some interesting questions. Chrome Lined Barrel? Yes? Or not necessary? What purpose does it serve? Is it more accurate? Corrosion resistant? Better than Nitride? Better than melonite? Better at dissipating heat? Is your response factual or just your experience? Were AK rifles chrome lined originally? Is it possible that they were lined because of the US market?

Frequenty Asked Questions: Nitride vs. Chrome Lined

Curious about the comparison of chrome lined vs nitride? We dig into the question more in this blog and discuss the right barrel for you.

faxonfirearms.com

 

[Longwalkhome]

Longwalk had a great point. Think about an AK as a farm implement. I have a couple old Marlin 30 30s from the 50s that I don't want any more wear on. I have multiple AKS that I don't mind playing with outside.
Maybe not the Haley Gross Motor Skill Reload , but that's just cuz I'm too old and slow.

Questions a man should ask is how many rounds was the gun made to shoot and can't it be repaired. Does it have a screw in barrel or pressed in. If a fellow wants to shoot a lot he really should find out the lifespan of the gun

My old Colt 1911s run far past 10,000 rounds but didn't shoot straight after 10,000 so I rebuilt it. An AR you just buy a new upper but parts are easy to find and most everyone can change parts.

Point being most guys will learn everything about their guns and work on them personally.

 

[AK0perator47]

Frequenty Asked Questions: Nitride vs. Chrome Lined

Curious about the comparison of chrome lined vs nitride? We dig into the question more in this blog and discuss the right barrel for you.

faxonfirearms.com

So when someone says that they chrome lined the AK barrel because imported AK ammunition is more corrosive is therefore not true in regards to the barrel and why it is chrome lined?

 

[The Heretic]

So when someone says that they chrome lined the AK barrel because imported AK ammunition is more corrosive is therefore not true in regards to the barrel and why it is chrome lined?

I wouldn't say that. It depends on "they". Recall that ARs had chrome lined barrels too. Nitriding and chrome lining add corrosion resistance, and there are a number of causes for corrosion beyond corrosive ammo. Nitriding and chrome lining also add to barrel life by making the steel harder.

Personally, I prefer nitriding as usually the whole barrel, not just the bore is nitrided.

 

[AK0perator47]

@Shootz9mm

I wouldn't say that. It depends on "they". Recall that ARs had chrome lined barrels too. Nitriding and chrome lining add corrosion resistance, and there are a number of causes for corrosion beyond corrosive ammo. Nitriding and chrome lining also add to barrel life by making the steel harder.

Personally, I prefer nitriding as usually the whole barrel, not just the bore is nitrided.

But if Nitride helps with corrosion and is inherently more accurate then chrome lining is second because unless you plan on doing full auto and getting into a couple hundred round shootout it's not necessary and an unneeded expense. Originally the Colt M16A2 and other variants were not chrome lined and they worked just fine in combat.

I suppose if you wanted the best of everything then you would want a cold hammer forged, nitrided, button rifled, chrome lined and fluted?!

 

[SpudBob]

So when someone says that they chrome lined the AK barrel because imported AK ammunition is more corrosive is therefore not true in regards to the barrel and why it is chrome lined?

I'm the one who said it and I STAND by it. The main reason that Ak's were and are in most cases chrome lined is for battle situations where cleaning a rifle is not all ways practical.. Berdan primers, especially in surplus ammo from the cold war era, had a higher corrosion rate than newer Berdan primed ammo does. However newer ammo and the nature and Berdan primers in general is STILL corrosive. Try shooting up a couple hundred rounds of modern Berdan primed ammo in even a chrome lined AK and let it sit for a couple weeks. You will be horrified what you find. Salt NEVER sleeps!!!

 

[Knobgoblin]

Bear in mind that expense is all relative to the final sale price.
A $400 barrel on a $600 rifle is probably not a profitable item.