National 80% Receiver Law Goes Into Effect

[CamoDeafie]

So....currently:

Are 80% lowers (incomplete) legal to sell without a serial #?

-or-

Do they need a serial # & FFL transfer?

DOJ/ATF probably would say they need serial#/FFL transfer if sold with tooling/jigs.

Edit, never mind that there is that annoying Oregon ghost gun bill

 

[Camelfilter]

Again, currently, are 80% incomplete lowers legal to sell in Oregon without serial#'s...

Asking for a new member who would like to post an ad.

Is the Oregon law in affect?

Edit: approved new members ad, then locked it for him/her to do his own due diligence. I need a nap...

 

[CamoDeafie]

Again, currently, are 80% incomplete lowers legal to sell in Oregon without serial#'s...

Asking for a new member who would like to post an ad.

Is the Oregon law in affect?

I would say no, the 80% aren't legal to sell right now without serial#, and yes the Oregon law is in effect

 

[JD42]

As off now you can still get 80% lowers. They will even ship to Oregon. (sorry Washington). That's lowers for Glock type poly 80's, Sig P320, AR15 and 10. Ruger 10/22 type rifles and 1911/2011 frames. I have ordered a few off each over the last month.

 

[PiratePast40]

So....currently:

Are 80% lowers (incomplete) legal to sell without a serial #?

-or-

Do they need a serial # & FFL transfer?

IAW HB2005 (enrolled), you can still buy, sell, and possess unserialized 80% frames and receivers until September 1, 2024. After 1 September 2024, they must have serial numbers to even possess.

IAW federal law, you cannot purchase an unserialized 80% frame or receiver as a kit with a jig.

 

[Local Loader]

Again, currently, are 80% incomplete lowers legal to sell in Oregon without serial#'s...

Asking for a new member who would like to post an ad.

Is the Oregon law in affect?

Edit: approved new members ad, then locked it for him/her to do his own due diligence. I need a nap...

80% lowers for Oregon do not require a serial or FFL until September next year 2024, as of the current status of the bill. They are feel to sell it to their hearts content till then.

 

[CamoDeafie]

IAW HB2005 (enrolled), you can still buy, sell, and possess unserialized 80% frames and receivers until September 1, 2024. After 1 September 2024, they must have serial numbers to even possess.

IAW federal law, you cannot purchase an unserialized 80% frame or receiver as a kit with a jig.

Thing is, nothing in that law as far as I could see says that enforcement won't happen until Sept 1st 2024
And why do I say consider it in effect when Sections 4 and 5 are set to be in effect Sept 1st , 2024.... well because a LEO did arrest a guy in Oregon for having a "ghost gun" and an unregistered silencer

Oregon City man arrested after deputy finds 'ghost gun,' homemade silencer during traffic stop

Deputies say they arrested a driver who was caught with a “ghost gun” during a traffic stop in Eagle Creek on Wednesday.According to the Clackamas County Sherif

katu.com

Edit. So take the risk, and better have a lawyer on speed dial in case Oregon police decides to charge you for violating HB2005

 

[Alexx1401]

Thing is, nothing in that law as far as I could see says that enforcement won't happen until Sept 1st 2024
And why do I say consider it in effect when Sections 4 and 5 are set to be in effect Sept 1st , 2024.... well because a LEO did arrest a guy in Oregon for having a "ghost gun" and an unregistered silencer

Oregon City man arrested after deputy finds 'ghost gun,' homemade silencer during traffic stop

Deputies say they arrested a driver who was caught with a “ghost gun” during a traffic stop in Eagle Creek on Wednesday.According to the Clackamas County Sherif

katu.com

Edit. So take the risk, and better have a lawyer on speed dial in case Oregon police decides to charge you for violating HB2005

As so often happens sure sounds like piss poor reporting again. The author is certainly going out of their way to try to promote the law about the "ghost gun" while almost ignoring the illegal can. Said he was charged with illegal possession of a firearm. Taking a "guess" here I would bet he was not allowed to have a gun at all.

 

[Local Loader]

As so often happens sure sounds like piss poor reporting again. The author is certainly going out of their way to try to promote the law about the "ghost gun" while almost ignoring the illegal can. Said he was charged with illegal possession of a firearm. Taking a "guess" here I would bet he was not allowed to have a gun at all.

That would be my guess as well.

 

[Local Loader]

So here comes a question that would create a gray area.

What if any charges would be made on people who use the 80% lowers for building costume props?
Would there be any charges against for selling them as costume build props?

I ask this cause people build and make prop guns all the time.

 

[CamoDeafie]

As so often happens sure sounds like piss poor reporting again. The author is certainly going out of their way to try to promote the law about the "ghost gun" while almost ignoring the illegal can. Said he was charged with illegal possession of a firearm. Taking a "guess" here I would bet he was not allowed to have a gun at all.

The only issue is the damned "Emergency Clause" which says 2005 goes into effect immediately, but in the same bill, Sections 4 and 5 supposed to take effect Sept 1st 2024.

That would be my guess as well.

Piss poor reporting, par for course. Of note is that they (police) were asking for more info of other crimes the accused may have committed.

So here comes a question that would create a gray area.

What if any charges would be made on people who use the 80% lowers for building costume props?
Would there be any charges against for selling them as costume build props?

I ask this cause people build and make prop guns all the time.

Good question, and one that depends on if the lawsuits over HB2005 has been filed and if the Federal lawsuits have gone up to SCOTUS yet.

 

[Alexx1401]

So here comes a question that would create a gray area.

What if any charges would be made on people who use the 80% lowers for building costume props?
Would there be any charges against for selling them as costume build props?

I ask this cause people build and make prop guns all the time.

Not a lawyer and no Holiday Inn and all but, my guess would be if the frame, which is what matters, was "intact" it would be a no go. If the Frame is taken from 80% to 100% its a firearm all by itself. Would not matter if the upper someone put on it was not "real". Now if you took that 80% and put some kind of upper on it? I would have to guess its still just a chunk of plastic. Again though no law degree here. I know if "I" wanted to make a prop gun I would NOT do it with a real functioning frame.

 

[Local Loader]

Not a lawyer and no Holiday Inn and all but, my guess would be if the frame, which is what matters, was "intact" it would be a no go. If the Frame is taken from 80% to 100% its a firearm all by itself. Would not matter if the upper someone put on it was not "real". Now if you took that 80% and put some kind of upper on it? I would have to guess its still just a chunk of plastic. Again though no law degree here. I know if "I" wanted to make a prop gun I would NOT do it with a real functioning frame.

See that's what I was trying to get at. There are people that use unmilled 80% lowers to build prop guns as they can't have a trigger on them to pass security prop check and because they are normally cheaper than building one.
This is where it creates the gray area, are the prop builds illegal to have as well now? Having an unfinished receiver is included in the bill and undetectable receivers i.e. plastic lowers. So are owners of those props now criminals?
Also if you only have just an unmilled lower and say you're going to use it to build a prop, can they still charge you with having it since building and having props isn't illegal.

 

[PiratePast40]

To the best of my knowledge, Section 8 of 2005 talks about serial numbers and section 10 says it doesn't go into effect until 1 Sept of next year. The reporter was embellishing the story by calling a firearm without a serial number a ghost gun.

What goes into effect immediately is the section about undetectable firearms, and 2005 defaults to the federal definition regarding x-ray machines.

 

[Droo]

 

[Local Loader]

To the best of my knowledge, Section 8 of 2005 talks about serial numbers and section 10 says it doesn't go into effect until 1 Sept of next year. The reporter was embellishing the story by calling a firearm without a serial number a ghost gun.

What goes into effect immediately is the section about undetectable firearms, and 2005 defaults to the federal definition regarding x-ray machines.

Can you link that, the only one I've found stops at section 8 where they are declaring it an emergency action to have to take effect after passage.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Can you link that, the only one I've found stops at section 8 where they are declaring it an emergency action to have to take effect after passage.

IAW HB2005 (enrolled), you can still buy, sell, and possess unserialized 80% frames and receivers until September 1, 2024. After 1 September 2024, they must have serial numbers to even possess.

IAW federal law, you cannot purchase an unserialized 80% frame or receiver as a kit with a jig.

Click the red text, it's a pdf file

 

[Alexx1401]

See that's what I was trying to get at. There are people that use unmilled 80% lowers to build prop guns as they can't have a trigger on them to pass security prop check and because they are normally cheaper than building one.
This is where it creates the gray area, are the prop builds illegal to have as well now? Having an unfinished receiver is included in the bill and undetectable receivers i.e. plastic lowers. So are owners of those props now criminals?
Also if you only have just an unmilled lower and say you're going to use it to build a prop, can they still charge you with having it since building and having props isn't illegal.

If I wanted for some reason to make a prop gun and could not find a suitable thing already made, and had an 80% around I wanted to get rid of? Simple enough to make that frame so it can never be made "real". As with all this stuff many picture in their mind swarms of "officials" running around arresting anyone they can find. This is not going to happen. Now if doing some kind of "show or such" where you they wanted a "prop gun" they may well get an extra looking over. Why it would be wise to just not use something that could ever be a gun. Then they have nothing to worry about needing a lawyer for. The people making these laws were really only after the people selling these "kits" do to so many of them ending up at crimes. When the market really started to take off with those I could see it was going to happen.
Again though seems pretty moot to me. Looking up "prop gun" on Amazon turns in hundreds of choices. A hell of a lot of them would work wonderfully for props and cost pennies on the dollar what 80% frames sell for. Many of them are air pistols which if no CO2 cartridge was in would make a dandy prop gun and someone could even use them for cheap practice /fun shooting.

 

[Local Loader]

Click the red text, it's a pdf file

See that's where it's confusing cause the one I found doesn't have sections 8, 9, 10 or 11 and section 12 replaced section 8. So which one is the most recent?

 

[Local Loader]

If I wanted for some reason to make a prop gun and could not find a suitable thing already made, and had an 80% around I wanted to get rid of? Simple enough to make that frame so it can never be made "real". As with all this stuff many picture in their mind swarms of "officials" running around arresting anyone they can find. This is not going to happen. Now if doing some kind of "show or such" where you they wanted a "prop gun" they may well get an extra looking over. Why it would be wise to just not use something that could ever be a gun. Then they have nothing to worry about needing a lawyer for. The people making these laws were really only after the people selling these "kits" do to so many of them ending up at crimes. When the market really started to take off with those I could see it was going to happen.
Again though seems pretty moot to me. Looking up "prop gun" on Amazon turns in hundreds of choices. A hell of a lot of them would work wonderfully for props and cost pennies on the dollar what 80% frames sell for. Many of them are air pistols which if no CO2 cartridge was in would make a dandy prop gun and someone could even use them for cheap practice /fun shooting.

Prop guns can't have moving parts so using replicas doesn't normally work. You can get 80% for a little as $20 and some builders like to go hyper-realistic and spend upto $800 on a single prop.