80% build tips

[11Charlie]

I would think your right Iron. maybe the person that told me that just doesn't want to do it because he thinks it is a grey area and doesn't want to take a chance.

 

[The Heretic]

My feeling is once it's all machined it is a complete and finished firearm no different than any other firearm whether it's painted or anodized or bare. You can have your store-bought lower anodized or Cerakoted right? How would an 80% be any different? You cant have anyone finish any part of the work, but when you get to finishing the work to make it a firearm is completed. Its a firearm, anodizing does not make it any more of a firearm than it already was thus finishing is not part of completing its firearm status.

That's how I see it, It's not legal advice nor am I saying I am right. I still feel comfortable with it though.

I agree, but the problem in WA & OR that I see, is that since it is a firearm, giving it to someone to do that work is a transfer. If they are an FFL, then at the least they will have to enter it into their books because they kept it overnight, and if they are not an FFL then does not the BGC laws come into play? To do that, does not the firearm need a serial #?

Either way, does not the gov. get some info on this hunk of metal that is now a firearm?

The whole reason I am getting into this is because I want a firearm that the gov. can not prove I have, and that defeats the purpose.

Otherwise I would just go ahead and buy a completed firearm or at least a completed lower and put that together - either way is actually less expensive than buying the lower and the jig and the tools, not to mention the time to work on it.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

an 80% lower w/o a serial # or even with one that only the owner knows of isnt traceable to anyone. how in the F would the atf be able to go into a cerakote shop and determine who owns the "piece of metal" to be coated. its F'n stupid. they just mad we got smart and figured out how to not be infringed on in that aspect.

yeehaw

 

[The Heretic]

AR pistol rifle build...

 

[greghaz]

Let me reinforce the comments of those that found this thread helpful.
This thread has been very useful to me and I suspect others who contemplate 2018 being the year for our first 80%. The depth and breadth of knowledge in NWF is once again very impressive.
Thanks guys!

 

[Koda]

isnt it legal to take any firearm to a licensed gunsmith for work without a transfer?

isnt there a huge grey area now with build parties or loaning your tools, specifically the jigs and fixtures to build your own?

if anyone had advice on using a crappy harbor freight drill press please share...

 

[The Heretic]

isnt it legal to take any firearm to a licensed gunsmith for work without a transfer?

You can take your firearm to an FFL, you can even leave it there and return the same day, but if they have it overnight then they have to put it in their ledger. IIRC you can get it back without a 4473 per federal law, not sure about state law.

isnt there a huge grey area now with build parties or loaning your tools, specifically the jigs and fixtures to build your own?

I have not checked recently, but I believe the ATF has said you must own the tools used - especially the jig - and you especially cannot take the lower to somebody and have them do the work for you.

 

[Koda]

You can take your firearm to an FFL, you can even leave it there and return the same day, but if they have it overnight then they have to put it in their ledger. IIRC you can get it back without a 4473 per federal law, not sure about state law.

are FFLs the same as a gunsmith? Ive never had to do a transfer for gunsmith work...

I'm asking in the context of this thread, if you wanted to have a smith anodize or cerekote an 80% lower you finished yourself.

 

[bolus]

I learned a couple of lessons:
1. When starting the router it is better to have someone turn it on while you hold it with both hands. If the router jerks when it starts and the bit touches the side it can damage the bit. I broke a mill bit that way and had to wait a few weeks to get a new one
have the second person hold the shop vac to get the metal chips.

2. Pocket depth is pretty important to get right. If you dont mill out the trigger pocket completely, the trigger wont fit under the safety. Its a pain to attach everything back together just to mill out another 1mm of metal. I like to fit the trigger, hammer and safety in first when finishing an 80% in case I need to do some more work I dont have to remove a bunch of other parts.

 

[The Heretic]

are FFLs the same as a gunsmith? Ive never had to do a transfer for gunsmith work...

I'm asking in the context of this thread, if you wanted to have a smith anodize or cerekote an 80% lower you finished yourself.

Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Does a gunsmith need to enter every firearm received for adjustment or repair into an acquisition and disposition (A&D) record? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

 

[The Heretic]

I learned a couple of lessons:
1. When starting the router it is better to have someone turn it on while you hold it with both hands. If the router jerks when it starts and the bit touches the side it can damage the bit. I broke a mill bit that way and had to wait a few weeks to get a new one
have the second person hold the shop vac to get the metal chips.

2. Pocket depth is pretty important to get right. If you dont mill out the trigger pocket completely, the trigger wont fit under the safety. Its a pain to attach everything back together just to mill out another 1mm of metal. I like to fit the trigger, hammer and safety in first when finishing an 80% in case I need to do some more work I dont have to remove a bunch of other parts.

Some routers have a power switch on the handle.

Could a person get a foot switch?

 

[Koda]

Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Does a gunsmith need to enter every firearm received for adjustment or repair into an acquisition and disposition (A&D) record? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

that means that if you have work done on a pre UBC gun then it becomes registered.

and in the context of this thread, if you take in your completed 80% to get cerekoted then it becomes registered too...

 

[The Heretic]

that means that if you have work done on a pre UBC gun then it becomes registered.

and in the context of this thread, if you take in your completed 80% to get cerekoted then it becomes registered too...

Probably.

What happens if it has no serial #?

You are not required to put a serial # on it since you have not sold or otherwise transferred ownership.

 

[The Heretic]

View attachment 408339

A 9mm I built recently.
View attachment 408340

 

[bolus]

Some routers have a power switch on the handle.

Could a person get a foot switch?

I got one that looks like this. Power switch at the top so you can only turn it on with one hand on the handles. foot switch would be nice.

 

[Koda]

Probably.

What happens if it has no serial #?

You are not required to put a serial # on it since you have not sold or otherwise transferred ownership.

if it [legally] has no serial number, then the FFL just states that on the form. Thats how its done with old guns (before serial numbers) being sold in todays times.

in a way, it becomes a "half ghost gun". they know you have one now, but dont know what it is... maybe those could be called "Phantom Guns"... lol

 

[The Heretic]

if it [legally] has no serial number, then the FFL just states that on the form. Thats how its done with old guns (before serial numbers) being sold in todays times.

in a way, it becomes a "half ghost gun". they know you have one now, but dont know what it is... maybe those could be called "Phantom Guns"... lol

Agreed. Which may be another reason why anti-gun pols do not like them.

 

[Tully Mars]

I agree, but the problem in WA & OR that I see, is that since it is a firearm, giving it to someone to do that work is a transfer. If they are an FFL, then at the least they will have to enter it into their books because they kept it overnight, and if they are not an FFL then does not the BGC laws come into play? To do that, does not the firearm need a serial #?

Exactly.
If a firearm is in the possession of someone doing work to it(coating a receiver) for more than 24 hours it's supposed to be written into their log. I had to get an 02/07 in order to take in refinishing work from local gun shops and just walk ins because of this. Here at least I do not have to perform a BGC before returning it to it's owner, but I know of some gun shops that do it and never say anything unless it is a no go just to cover their ASSets..

 

[Tully Mars]

Probably.

What happens if it has no serial #?

You are not required to put a serial # on it since you have not sold or otherwise transferred ownership.

Most shops around here will not touch a receiver w/o a serial number on it.

 

[11Charlie]

@Koda Jon @NWCustomFirearms explained it to me. He can cerekote it for me but it can't be milled or finished into a working lower. He can only touch it and or keep it over night if it hasn't been milled yet. I plan on putting a cereal number on mine but I don't want it in the books because that would defeat the purpose of buying a 80% lower.