National 65% of Gun Owners Say They Won’t Vote for Pres. Trump Over “Red Flags”

[44Brent]

And we all wonder why we can't get a representative government to support us. Am not a friend of red flag laws at all but just who will they vote for? A Dem? A 3rd party (guaranteed loser for us)? Hold your nose and vote! He's still better than the alternatives.

There is no need to "hold our nose". The NRA has had the capability to get Trump completely on board in supporting gun rights, but they haven't done it. What they have done is given him carte-blanche support regardless of what he does. What they should have done is told me that their support is CONDITIONAL and that he doesn't get a free ride. If they had told him "Cross us once and we are going to war with you and will tell all of our members to kick you out on the next election", he wouldn't have written a bump stock ban by edict, and wouldn't even thinking about doing bans or red flag laws. The reason he feels free to stick a knife in our back is because he knows that the NRA will "hold their nose".

This holds true for all politicians and not just Trump. The politicians know that the lobbyists will suck up to them if they occasionally throw the lobbyists a bone.

 

[41mag]

What they have done is given him carte-blanche support regardless of what he does.

we don't know that

 

[41mag]

"Cross us once and we are going to war with you

not a realistic business plan is it?

 

[41mag]

knows that the NRA will "hold their nose".

This holds true for all politicians and not just Trump.

if that's the case, how do you expect 'change of process' in the face of universal similar steps ever closer to the edge'???

 

[44Brent]

we don't know that

Ever notice that Trump gets invited to speak at NRA events over and over again? Do you ever hear of him getting challenged at such events to put his money where his mouth is?

if that's the case, how do you expect 'change of process' in the face of universal similar steps ever closer to the edge'???

I don't see other gun rights groups (GOA for instance) sucking up to politicians and giving them permission to break campaign promises. I also don't see news stories about directors of other groups (GOA for instance) diverting member funds into enriching themselves for their own personal benefit. I also don't see left wing group giving permission to their favored politicians to vote against their interests. Yet, conservatives give (tacit) permission to politicians over and over again to break campaign promises because we are told "the other guy is worse".

Gun owners are like victims of cheating spouses who make excuses for a partner's bad behavior.

 

[Geardo]

Haven't read the entire thread, but I will say this:

Gun owners who vote 3rd party or not at all, they all deserve to lick the boots of their democratic masters... PERIOD....

I don't agree with the "red flag" laws and how they work, but I sure as he!! will never, ever vote for a democrat or even worse a socialist...

God save the Republic!!!

People thinking republicans give half a bubblegum about them are the true bootlickers as far as I am concerned. Democrats are so far left they would have been in jail 100 years ago, or hanged for treason. And republicans are only slightly farther to the right than them.

Who am I going to vote for? I don't know, a libertarian? Or maybe I will write in Rand Paul?

Or everyone should just write in Taco_lean for dictator and I will fix all our issues in a week.

 

[maddog]

Might as well vote for Biden.

Just like they did for Kate Brown!

It dumbfounds me!

Talk about sheep!

 

[44Brent]

NRA isn't the only entity that makes excuses for the proverbial "cheating spouse".

Right now the biggest excuse maker for Trump in the media is ALEX JONES. He swore up and down before the election that Trump was "the real deal". With each broken promise Alex Jones would hold his nose and explain it away as it being a case of "Trump = good", and that "people around Trump = bad". Infowars audience continually receive a steady stream of excuses of how Trump is a heroic figure who engages in 64D chess and is "battling all the people around him", in spite of the fact that it was Trump who appointed all the bad people who surround him.

 

[Patriot1775]

For all his pre-election promises on guns, he hasn't delivered much.

 

[DB is Here]

For all his pre-election promises on guns, he hasn't delivered much.

This is about it....Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh

 

[nammac]

This is about it....Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh

Which are not to be under estimated for their long term impact... Hopefully...

 

[bbbass]

There are two fallacies behind the argument that "one must always vote for the 'lesser' of two evils" because the other candidate will be worse.

1st fallacy: The first fallacy is the assumption that one of two candidates can be identified as been less evil than the other. The persons making this argument selectively cherry pick statements made by candidates in front of certain audiences where the candidate panders to the crowd, and then ignore all conflicting statements made by the candidate to other crowds which have conflicting viewpoints.

2nd fallacy: The second fallacy is the recurring failure to admit that the so-called "lesser of two evils" has stabbed voters in the back. One candidate promises to stab voters right in the heart, and the other candidate promises to not stab voters in the heart. The so-called "lesser of two evils" candidates proceeds to stab voters in the back, and then we are told that the stab-in-the-back didn't really happen, and was totally necessary to avoid getting stabbed from the front in the heart.

Seems rather simplistic description of reality to me.

I ask myself, if one candidate promises to totally reshape govt into a Socialist State, and will

OR

Another candidate makes promises, is super for the economy, employment, foreign policy, but only gets 95% of promises and flips on 1% of the remaining 5%

Which candidate do I vote for?

I also don't see news stories about directors of other groups (GOA for instance) diverting member funds into enriching themselves for their own personal benefit. I also don't see left wing group giving permission to their favored politicians to vote against their interests.

NRA having issues, vote Wayne out.

Lefties don't compromise, ever. That part is true. You cross one and you're dead. Ask Hillary.

NRA isn't the only entity that makes excuses for the proverbial "cheating spouse".

Right now the biggest excuse maker for Trump in the media is ALEX JONES.

You listen/watch Alex Jones/Infowars?

 

[bbbass]

What plagues conservative voters is the constant drive for perfection. If we can't get 100% of what we want in a candidate, we opt out or shoot ourselves in the foot. I'm all for more pressure from the NRA on public figures. But I've already stated that our 5M members are not the threat we used to be against the more than half of America that either fears or hates guns and gun owners. Society has changed. Better adapt tactics or suck it up.

And no candidate can give EVERYBODY what they want. Nor can they accomplish everything they set out to do. Nor can they keep every promise. Even the Great Communicator, Ronaldus Magnus Raygun, did not have a perfect record.

This is reality. This is not Sugar Mountain or Candyland.

 

[E4mafia]

From the article:

"Washington, DC — The American Firearms Coalition has just released an online poll of more than 20,000 gun owners conducted over the last 18 hours indicating that 65% of gun owners say they will not vote for President Trump if he signs "Red Flag Gun Confiscation" into law.
The shocking poll numbers echo what many grassroots gun activists are seeing and hearing across the country."

65% of 20,000 = 13,000

The board of directors: Board of Directors - American Firearms Coalition
Is the AFC as big or used by many as say NRA/GOA etc? or is this one of those more grass roots good ol' boys clubs? - someone with years of 2A orgs please chime in.

Online Poll: no source listed or can be linked/found on site.
At least the anti-gunners can list a source thru some university with a +/- margin of error, this doesn't and just claims some literally who? online poll says so off sensationalism. So without a sourced link of conducted study and it only being an online poll im going to drop those numbers to be fair and say out of 20 gun owners 65% say they wont vote IF the red laws go into effect so now we are at 13 people in total.

Not defending red flag laws either just looking at the brass tax of the messages claim. Reminder of turncoat rhinos who would sell out the rights deserve no more sympathy than a grabber themselves. He says one thing but does another. This whole thing is designed to cause infighting and wedges like its been since 2016.

Yes he has said "go for the guns first then due process second" and we've had the bumpstock ban (the death by a thousand cuts argument). But to totally convince 65% as not voting for trump when it looks like its contained to a specific pool and not the entirety of the US with a consensus and actual linked poll I cannot buy it.

I am not in favor of the Graham push and Trump openly talking about it either, again I am just looking at the source here. YMMV

Ronaldus Magnus Raygun, did not have a perfect record.

This is reality. This is not Sugar Mountain or Candyland.

Ah Raygun.....all for guns until that hughes amendment and the brady bill happened. After that he was lost to the system and 180'd.
How a Pro-2nd Amendment President Supported Gun Control
Seems like we traded 2A for Amnesty...

 

[Gbirk]

What plagues conservative voters is the constant drive for perfection. If we can't get 100% of what we want in a candidate, we opt out or shoot ourselves in the foot. I'm all for more pressure from the NRA on public figures. But I've already stated that our 5M members are not the threat we used to be against the more than half of America that either fears or hates guns and gun owners. Society has changed. Better adapt tactics or suck it up.

And no candidate can give EVERYBODY what they want. Nor can they accomplish everything they set out to do. Nor can they keep every promise. Even the Great Communicator, Ronaldus Magnus Raygun, did not have a perfect record.

This is reality. This is not Sugar Mountain or Candyland.

What plagues this Republican is that I firmly disagree with a lot of the policy, procedures and personalities they stand for, but they are the only side that pretends to support the other 1/2 of what i believe, so I vote Republican. I don't want a perfect candidate, I just want a candidate who is not a complete asshat and will do what they promised while they ran. I feel like I don't have a choice anymore and I hate them all. My government no longer represents me at all. I hate that and am embarrassed by the people in power.

 

[bbbass]

What plagues this Republican is that I firmly disagree with a lot of the policy, procedures and personalities they stand for, but they are the only side that pretends to support the other 1/2 of what i believe, so I vote Republican. I don't want a perfect candidate, I just want a candidate who is not a complete asshat and will do what they promised while they ran. I feel like I don't have a choice anymore and I hate them all. My government no longer represents me at all. I hate that and am embarrassed by the people in power.

The other 1/2... makes me wonder but no I won't ask!

I have a good friend that is a registered Republican but is the biggest leftist that I know. I often wonder how that works. Not saying that is you... just relating a story.

As for gov not representing you/me/us... when has it ever? I think it was just an illusion all along for me. It felt like govt grew away from my beliefs and values. Gov "of the people, by the people, and for the people". Became gov for govt, for the elites, and for those with sacks full of cash.

Despite all that, I still hope, I still vote, I still believe in the values that were in place when this country was founded. No, not slavery, but that every person was created equal, and has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Not murder in the womb, not oppression of lawmaking against the will of the people, not in a guarantee of happiness.

 

[bbbass]

Ah Raygun.....all for guns until that hughes amendment and the brady bill happened. After that he was lost to the system and 180'd.
How a Pro-2nd Amendment President Supported Gun Control
Seems like we traded 2A for Amnesty...

Was the Brady Bill veto proof? Not sure what happened there. And remind me what the hughes amendment was ... I'm being lazy.

Ronnie, despite his failings, did accomplish great things for this country. And he gave us Ollie North, a great patriot who was later run out of the NRA.

 

[E4mafia]

Was the Brady Bill veto proof? Not sure what happened there. And remind me what the hughes amendment was ... I'm being lazy.

Ronnie, despite his failings, did accomplish great things for this country. And he gave us Ollie North, a great patriot who was later run out of the NRA.

From my article, Firearm Owners Protection Act of 86 was dandy until Hughes Amendment in the 11th hour a Dem from NJ slipped in writing that banned fully autos and it passed. Which after people found out, likely the hard way, greatly discredited Reagan. As for the Brady bill, in the same article Reagan even says: "Reagan voiced his support for the Brady Bill, saying the 1981 assassination attempt might have never happened if the Brady Bill had been law."

Brady Bill signed into law
To answer your question if its veto proof: I don't think so when a couple politicians are shot, at that point its set in stone. Er, I meant. A politican and a standing president.

Firearm Owners Protection Act
The lone piece of significant legislation related to gun rights during the Reagan administration was the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986. Signed into law by Reagan on May 19, 1986, the legislation amended the Gun Control Act of 1968 by repealing parts of the original act that were deemed by studies to be unconstitutional.

The National Rifle Association and other pro-gun groups lobbied for passage of the legislation, and it was generally considered favorable for gun owners. Among other things, the act made it easier to transport long rifles across the United States, ended federal records-keeping on ammunition sales and prohibited the prosecution of someone passing through areas with strict gun control with firearms in their vehicle, so long as the gun was properly stored.

However, the act also contained a provision banning the ownership of any fully automatic firearms not registered by May 19, 1986. That provision was slipped into the legislation as an 11th-hour amendment by Rep. William J. Hughes, a New Jersey Democrat. Reagan has been criticized by some gun owners for signing legislation containing the Hughes amendment.


Further in article:

End Result of Reagan Presidency on Gun Rights
The Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 will be remembered as an important piece of legislation for gun rights. However, Reagan also cast his support behind the two most controversial pieces of gun control legislation of the past 30 years. His support of the Assault Weapons Ban in 1994 may have directly led to the ban winning the approval of Congress. Congress passed the ban by a vote of 216-214. In addition to Klug voting for the ban after Reagan's last-minute plea, Rep. Dick Swett, D-N.H., also credited Reagan's support of the bill for helping him decide to cast a favorable vote.

A more lasting impact of Reagan's policy on guns was the nomination of several Supreme Court justices. Of the four justices nominated by Reagan -- Sandra Day O'Connor, William Rehnquist, Antonin Scalia and Anthony Kennedy -- the latter two were still on the bench for a pair of important Supreme Court rulings on gun rights in the 2000s: District of Columbia v. Heller in 2008 and McDonald v. Chicago in 2010. Both sided with a narrow, 4-3 majority in striking down gun bans in Washington D.C. and Chicago while ruling that the Second Amendment applies to individuals and the states.
------

Its a mixed bag.

 

[mrblond]

well, this is the reaction I am getting from the knee jerkers. If you dont think by not voting you are going to somehow save your rights?

 

[Slobray]

The other 1/2... makes me wonder but no I won't ask!

I have a good friend that is a registered Republican but is the biggest leftist that I know. I often wonder how that works. Not saying that is you... just relating a story.

I would say that he votes for the worst possible candidate in the Republican primary then votes for the socialist in the main. He's also probably someone that the anti's/leftists poll constantly to gin up numbers in polls: "Do you..... support an AWB, want more gun control, mag ban, hate the NRA, hate Trump,..."



Ray