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6 Dead, Dying, and Soon-To-Be-Obsolete Handgun Cartridges
- Thread Starter Koda
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I've just recently got into .32 S&W Long. Talk about dead cartridges...
I'd wanted one for many years. Yes, I know it's underpowered and obsolete, but I just like the little round. I finally decided to just buy one, so I paid probably a little too much on Gunbroker for a nice, older Model 31. Then, just a few weeks later one pops up on the classifieds here, an even older I-frame Regulation Police. I bought it too!
Fortunately I have a big bag (1k+) of .32 Long brass that I picked up cheap at a gun show a few years ago, because I knew I'd eventually buy one.
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There are long time shooters here that have no idea how accurate the 32 long is, its been used in competitions for decades.I've just recently got into .32 S&W Long. Talk about dead cartridges...
I'd wanted one for many years. Yes, I know it's underpowered and obsolete, but I just like the little round. I finally decided to just buy one, so I paid probably a little too much on Gunbroker for a nice, older Model 31. Then, just a few weeks later one pops up on the classifieds here, an even older I-frame Regulation Police. I bought it too!
Fortunately I have a big bag (1k+) of .32 Long brass that I picked up cheap at a gun show a few years ago, because I knew I'd eventually buy one.
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10mm has about 200 fps over the .45 ACP, so yes, somewhat more powerful - but not a LOT, and energy isn't everything. *shrug*
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I heard that Slenderman carries a 357 Sig.
I predict that Field and Stream will be gone before any of these cartridges. False prophets always find agreement. True prophets find rejection.
I predict that Field and Stream will be gone before any of these cartridges. False prophets always find agreement. True prophets find rejection.
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.40 is still competing for second most popular with .45 by the latest stats, probably even surpassing it in 6 out of ten states in the latest ammo.com table.
The ballistics of the .40 in 180-200 gr loads are roughly equivalent to the same loads in .45 ACP, but with less recoil (in my subjective opinion), with better sectional density (for better penetration). IMO it is a very good compromise, even though it takes up more room in a mag (I give up 5 rounds in the 226 - a 15 round mag with a 2+ extension vs. a 20 rd mag with the same extension for 9x19). Fifteen rounds is not bad. Either way, I've got it covered, having SIGs in 9mm, .40 and .45 and plenty of ammo.
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I am surprised it isn't already - and I was once a dedicate subscriber - long ago....
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The 40 S&W can operate at a substantially higher pressure which gives somewhat a leg up. Other new cartridges are often the same.
I think the 357 Sig is one of the ones most in danger, since AFAIK there isn't really anything to use as a 'parent' case once/if brass dries up. This is too bad, IMO. It's similar in power to 40, with the cost to reload of 9mm.
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How about a Luger in 357 sig? Amazing guns, whole gun is remade/modified including frame by Martz in CA. He made them in 45 acp and other calibers too. He also made an improved safety I think it decocks it or something can't remember.
.357 is kinda like .41Ae I think. Great cartridges that never caught on in great numbers. 41Ae was ahead of its time and solved the post 86 Miami dade fbi desire for more power and was ready made for that ahead of time, but they adopted 40 S&w so it never caught on. I would love to have one of the Imi/iwi Jericho's that come with both 41Ae and 9mm barrels just for giggles.
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I'll pass, but a PCC in 357 Sig might be irresistible.
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The are some problems with the 357 Sig Bottle neck pistol cartridges aren't super popular with most hand loaders . Part of the reason is it is easier to create an over pressure situation with them. Not saying it is insurmountable to someone who is thoughtful in their loading process but the issue not unknown or unique to 357 Sig.
Ammo just never was super available partially because it was not adopted by a lot o agencies much like the 45 GAP . I can't remember 357 Sig being much less than $1 a round ever and it never just sitting on the shelf like other calibers are when there is no panic in play.
Plus if you look at the numbers it never really did what they claimed it gets close with some of the boutique loads like the Corbon and Federal Premium but most of the stuff I have seen / shot myself in a 4 inch barrel came up short of 125 grain 357 magnum velocities . I am not saying its not fast enough I am just saying it's harder to reproduce the advertised results that they hyped it with .
I have a revolver in a dead cartridge I love shooting , the 38 S&W its a wonderfully mild cartridge to shoot and cheap too assuming you hand load . People tend to not understand the little cartridge and most loadings for it are really weak in deference to all the old / junk revolvers chambered in it. It can be loaded to be a respectable performer and even when the loads are hotter in a strong modern revolver like a Police Positive or M&P its very manageable.
Ed McGivern praised it's accuracy
Ammo just never was super available partially because it was not adopted by a lot o agencies much like the 45 GAP . I can't remember 357 Sig being much less than $1 a round ever and it never just sitting on the shelf like other calibers are when there is no panic in play.
Plus if you look at the numbers it never really did what they claimed it gets close with some of the boutique loads like the Corbon and Federal Premium but most of the stuff I have seen / shot myself in a 4 inch barrel came up short of 125 grain 357 magnum velocities . I am not saying its not fast enough I am just saying it's harder to reproduce the advertised results that they hyped it with .
I have a revolver in a dead cartridge I love shooting , the 38 S&W its a wonderfully mild cartridge to shoot and cheap too assuming you hand load . People tend to not understand the little cartridge and most loadings for it are really weak in deference to all the old / junk revolvers chambered in it. It can be loaded to be a respectable performer and even when the loads are hotter in a strong modern revolver like a Police Positive or M&P its very manageable.
Ed McGivern praised it's accuracy
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I believe the gun makers of America did not make a lot of guns in European calibers because they didn't want European guns comming in for competition. Even when they did make guns in European calibers they changed the names. 38 S&W was named after the 38 Webly i believe.
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Uh, no. I'll keep them, the dies, and all the brass and bullets.
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Actually no. The .38 S&W was around long before Webley started screwing with the cartridge. I'll also mention that John Browning designed the .32ACP and .25ACP so they are hardly "European calibers."
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Preferring the road less traveled, I thought the .41 AE was the preferred round for 9mm conversions. From a manufacturing standpoint, the same slide as 9mm is used. I guess three years ago now, my son decided on an IWI Jericho in 9. At that time, there were quite a few IWI .41 AE conversion kits around. So, I picked one up for him, barrel with spring and mag for just over $100. Well, those days are long gone. Online I saw a supposedly original Jericho factory set with .41 AE conversion in an IWI marked hard case. Seller was dreaming of $2500.
I have a High-power clone and was able to secure a nice Action arms .41 AE conversion kit as well as brass/loaded rounds from a member on another forum. Practically, can you imagine any of the micro 9s having a .41 option? Sure you don't get to fire 17 rounds in 2.5 seconds, but when has that ever been crucial?
On the other hand, other calibers have finally caught up with .41 AE pricing. Since no one was selling any as it was, what's the point in jacking it up even further?
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This is all correct and for those that do not know ...
ACP stands for AUTOMATIC COLT PISTOL they were part of a family of cartridges that included the 38 ACP and 45 ACP which also designed by John Browning.
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And as for .25ACP I'd buy one of these in a heart beat.
"The Lercker was a selective-fire machine pistol developed in Bologna, Italy after the Second World War.
Designed to appear and operate as a handgun, while firing as a fully automatic weapon, the Lercker was chambered for the 6.35×16mmSR Browning Auto (.25 ACP) cartridge, a small cartridge by post-war standards. The small size of the round helped to facilitate the large magazine capacity; the Lercker could carry 20 rounds in a magazine in the pistol grip (an additional round can not be stored in the chamber, because the weapon fires from an open bolt). The small cartridge also produced much less recoil than larger cartridges such as the 9mm Parabellum, making the weapon easier to control in the selective-fire mode. With a 102 mm (4 in) barrel and an overall length of just 184 mm (7.2 in), the Lercker was a compact design. Unusually for any pistol-type weapon, the Lercker fired from an open bolt for every shot, such that the slide stayed in the retracted position before firing commenced. It was capable of firing at a rate of 1200 rounds per minute, a high figure for the time.[1]
The Lercker was introduced in 1950, but only about 150 of the guns were produced before production ended.[2] The weapon was banned by the Italian government, as it was the functional equivalent of a submachine gun, but small enough to conceal easily.[3]"
"The Lercker was a selective-fire machine pistol developed in Bologna, Italy after the Second World War.
Designed to appear and operate as a handgun, while firing as a fully automatic weapon, the Lercker was chambered for the 6.35×16mmSR Browning Auto (.25 ACP) cartridge, a small cartridge by post-war standards. The small size of the round helped to facilitate the large magazine capacity; the Lercker could carry 20 rounds in a magazine in the pistol grip (an additional round can not be stored in the chamber, because the weapon fires from an open bolt). The small cartridge also produced much less recoil than larger cartridges such as the 9mm Parabellum, making the weapon easier to control in the selective-fire mode. With a 102 mm (4 in) barrel and an overall length of just 184 mm (7.2 in), the Lercker was a compact design. Unusually for any pistol-type weapon, the Lercker fired from an open bolt for every shot, such that the slide stayed in the retracted position before firing commenced. It was capable of firing at a rate of 1200 rounds per minute, a high figure for the time.[1]
The Lercker was introduced in 1950, but only about 150 of the guns were produced before production ended.[2] The weapon was banned by the Italian government, as it was the functional equivalent of a submachine gun, but small enough to conceal easily.[3]"
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You are absolutely right on the 38S&W being first, I was wrong.
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