6 Dead, Dying, and Soon-To-Be-Obsolete Handgun Cartridges

[The Heretic]

How dead is 40?

Plenty of reloading components still available for 40. 9 and 45 looks pretty beat up. Only checked one site. Just made me laugh.

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[TTSX]

Been interested in getting a glock in 45 GAP if the price was right for some time. Mostly as a curiosity. There's a reason it never made it to gen4

I like the .40 S&W just fine. I don't like that my guns tend to spit out "pregnant" brass, though. Makes me iffy about reloading it. The .357 Sig is definitely less alive. Probably why the G23 exists in gen5 and the G32 doesn't.

Would like to experience a .41 mag to see what the hullabaloo is about.

 

[deerbandit]

Too many guns in circulation in .32 ACP and .40 S&W for this to be true.

-E-

I also disagree about the .40 cal. There are way too many out there. The other calibers I do agree though.

 

[03A3Sporter]

There are no numbers again just percentages and it was for a very limited time frame that is statistically not a good sample to support your arguments . considering its a two week period in 2020

Ammo.com's sales to NAAGA members reflect this spike. On May 26th, the day following the death of George Floyd, the online ammunition retailer saw a 260% increase in traffic from NAAGA members.

When compared to the two weeks before May 25th (May 10 to May 24) versus the two weeks after (May 25 to June 8), Ammo.com saw the following increases from NAAGA members:

 

[deerbandit]

Because .357 sig is the issued sidearm caliber for all of wakanda.

You just don't know that because wakandon't exist.
Or does it ?

Haaaaaa, Wakanda.

 

[revjen45]

1) "She finally got fed up with her model 36 Smith and bought herself a model 26 Glock."
Good choice.

2) "Way out in left field here, but are 9x18 and 7.62 x 25 tok already considered dead?
No. There are a lot of Toks and Maks out there that people want to shoot. If you look for it .30 Tok is available in JHP. It's not popular enough to make the Ellefritz study so there's not much real world data on how it works for save your azz. Given that the TTC rides nicely in the front pocket of Carhartt cargo pants it's a viable choice for SD.

 

[oremike]

Would like to experience a .41 mag to see what the hullabaloo is about.

I'll let you shoot mine sometime. I belong to Izaak Walton.

 

[Idaho44]

Because the .40 S&W can be fired in a 10mm, I think it is more than a niche! As for the others, look at their 'history' and longevity! Someone needed a subject to write about for a paycheck!

 

[ilikegunspdx]

What does "dead" really mean anyway? I mean u can still buy 9mm largo and 30 Luger f.e. and how many of those guns are used on a regular basis? To me "dead" means ammo is not available at all, which means u need to find old brass or modify from another cartridge to reload for it. 40 s&w will never go away in any of our lifetimes imo. there are tons of those guns out there.

 

[The Heretic]

There are no numbers again just percentages and it was for a very limited time frame that is statistically not a good sample to support your arguments . considering its a two week period in 2020

Agreed. But I think we can also agree that the .40 is not obsolete - that a lot of people are buying it.

I think the article that this whole thread is discussing was a lazy attempt at click bait. There are plenty of other cartridges that are more "obsolete" than the ones listed in the article.

 

[CLT65]

Way out in left field here, but are 9x18 and 7.62 x 25 tok already considered dead?

I think military surplus cartridges are a bit different. Their popularity comes and goes depending on whatever surplus guns seems to be available at the time.

The 9x18 Makarov for example, was something few people had even heard of when I was first into guns, but with the fall of the Iron Curtain and subsequent influx of Makarovs into the US, they became pretty popular, to where US ammunition manufacturers started making ammo for them. It's popularity has to do strictly with the cheap surplus guns that shoot it. The round itself is really nothing to brag about, by modern standards.

I don't think any US pistol manufacturer has chambered it, so if imports of surplus 9x18 pistols stop, the values of the ones already here will continue to rise to where it's mostly collectors who own them, not shooters. At that point the 9x18 would go back to being mostly dead: no new guns chambered for it, and little demand for ammo.

What I get a kick out of (no pun intended), are the occasional chamberings that seem to rise from the grave. The 45-70 was designed in 1873, and by the mid 20th century, as the govt surplus Trapdoor Springfield rifles were either worn out or in collections, popularity had waned to were it was pretty much dead (so I've been told). Look at it now; it's the king of the hill for big bores!

The vaunted 10mm that everyone loves so much now had it's low point in popularity too. I don't remember seeing them around much at all in the '90s. My memory could be faulty on that though. It does seem that it's much more popular now than it was for a while.

 

[CLT65]

Agreed. But I think we can also agree that the .40 is not obsolete - that a lot of people are buying it.

That's my take on it too. It's still as good as it ever was.

One more "anecdote" on the subject; I was just talking to a friend a few days ago about this very thing. He likes to shoot but is not really a "gun guy". He has a really nice .40 S&W SIG that he likes as much as ever, but he made the comment that he's been thinking about getting a 9mm too.

Why? Nothing wrong with the .40, it's just that he's heard repeatedly in recent years that all the cool kids are going to 9mm, and he's a little concerned about ammo availability.

 

[Dinglenutz]

Now .357 SIG - why didn't they include that instead of .40? Not very popular and only a bit faster than 9mm +P+.

It's not very popular.

If I exceed the max pressure spec with X, it shoots almost like Y has never been an argument I was willing to put forth, but I guess the future may hold many things.

 

[The Heretic]

The vaunted 10mm that everyone loves so much now had it's low point in popularity too. I don't remember seeing them around much at all in the '90s. My memory could be faulty on that though. It does seem that it's much more popular now than it was for a while.

I think with some cartridges, popularity is at least partially dependent by adoption by other entities - e.g., LEOs and military. The 10mm came and went in that regard, and was replaced by the .40 S&W. People like me were waiting it out to see what came of all of these changes. Even the .40 went thru this and is now seeing its popularity wane to some degree because LEOs going back to 9x19, and the military never really adopting it (probably mostly due to all the other countries wanting to stick with 9x19).

In short, a lot of "politics" and subjective reasoning.

For me, the 10mm has little advantage over .45 ACP except its better sectional density, and fewer guns chambered for it, while the .40 has good ballistics approaching that of the .45 ACP and less recoil.

 

[The Heretic]

That's my take on it too. It's still as good as it ever was.

One more "anecdote" on the subject; I was just talking to a friend a few days ago about this very thing. He likes to shoot but is not really a "gun guy". He has a really nice .40 S&W SIG that he likes as much as ever, but he made the comment that he's been thinking about getting a 9mm too.

Why? Nothing wrong with the .40, it's just that he's heard repeatedly in recent years that all the cool kids are going to 9mm, and he's a little concerned about ammo availability.

I started with .45 ACP, got 9mm pistols because of the ammo availability and still have them for that reason. As I mentioned, I do not feel undergunned with a 9mm as long as I have good ammo. It was only a couple years ago I got my first .40 SIG and then decided I liked it. The more I shot it and the more I thought about it, the more I liked it - it is now my preference. But I am not a LEO (been a long time - 40+ years) since I was, and I hope I never need to use a self-defense gun, so it is mostly academic - unless stuff happens.

The other good thing about .40 is that it is just at that sweet spot of popularity where there are enough guns and ammo out there for it to be available, but not so popular that you can't find any. If SHTF it might be better to be in that sweet spot.

 

[Dinglenutz]

For me, the 10mm has little advantage over .45 ACP except its better sectional density

Well that and a lot more energy when staying within SAAMI specs. For popular factory ammo, I agree; 10mm isn't for everyone and ammo manufacturers have responded with downloaded offerings.

If one wants more from something like a 45 ACP, I can say that I like my 460 Rowland quite a lot.

 

[Used To Hunt]

Found it!

It was NAAGA not NSSF:

Ammo.com Reports A Recent Spike in Ammunition Sales That Indicates Rise in African American Gun Ownership

/PRNewswire/ -- Growing concerns over personal safety in the African American community are leading many to take action. Online ammunition retailer Ammo.com,...

www.prnewswire.com

Quoting:

The most popular calibers purchased by NAAGA members during this time frame were:

1. 9mm ammo - 37% of all sales.
2. 223 ammo - 27%.
3. 40 Cal (S&W) ammo - 14%.
4. 5.56x45 ammo - 6%.
5. 45 ACP ammo - 4%.

Obviously 9mm has the highest sales. That's because it takes so many rounds to stop a threat.

 

[DangerDog]

AHAHA! 40 isn't going anywhere XD

 

[Provincial]

I think that .40 will be the "rimless .38 Special" and it will hang around for several lifetimes for use in at least the numerous firearms now in circulation. If it can be used in 10MM semi-autos as a reduced load (like .38 Special in .357 Magnum), that will contribute to its survival.

That NAAGA survey was a measure of the rush to buy self-defense ammo in the wake of the Floyd incident. It would be a mistake to treat it as anything but a statistical anomaly. One has to look at trends of sales over longer time periods to project future demand.

 

[RVTECH]

Articles like this are pointless.

For a cartridge to be officially 'dead' it would have to be a caliber of which virtually no CONVENTIONAL components are available to reload for it - let alone being still manufactured as factory ammo which I believe all the cartridges in the article are.

Yes, there are no doubt a lot of cartridges are for all intents and purposes officially 'dead' and gone (.25 Stevens and .44 Henry rimfire for example) but many still live on albeit in very limited numbers or usage.

Back to my 'conventional' statement - one can reload certain 'dead' rimfire cartridges with specialized brass that uses .22 blanks as the 'primer'.