1898 weapons question

[justcuz]

You (justcuz) have a really difficult time organizing a cogent idea........maby (sic) you need another Joint. (Andy....you are welcome to edit as you see fit)

Argonaut, I am truly sorry you feel this mentality to bully though this continued behaviour to engage in character assignation against another member during a discussion(s) as it tis a shame as it significantly distracts from your message(s) as well as your perceived standing amongst the membership.

 

[ditchtiger]

Pre 1898 is antique and doesnt require BGC for the feds.

This is the issue, the state law says it is needed. Went over this with my LGS friend and he saw it, grey as all get out. If a pre-98 gun was in the store he would only sell it through NICS, just to be sure.

 

[wired]

After this conversation I need another joint. Or at least another beer.

This is the issue, the state law says it is needed. Went over this with my LGS friend and he saw it, grey as all get out. If a pre-98 gun was in the store he would only sell it through NICS, just to be sure.

I dont follow Oregon laws any more since I absolutely quit living there but Ive had dealers refuse to sell me a Ruger Old Army through the mail. Dealers are often idiots. Not saying thats the case here though.

Washington follows federal regs as far as antiques go.

 

[ma96782]

WASHINGTON

RCW 9.41.010
(1) "Antique firearm" means a firearm or replica of a firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

Then.....in so much as BGCs.....

RCW 9.41.113
Firearms sales or transfers-Background checks-Requirements-Exceptions.
(1) All firearm sales or transfers, in whole or part in this state including without limitation a sale or transfer where either the purchaser or seller or transferee or transferor is in Washington, shall be subject to background checks unless specifically exempted by state or federal law. The background check requirement applies to all sales or transfers including, but not limited to, sales and transfers through a licensed dealer, at gun shows, online, and between unlicensed persons.

(4) This section does not apply to:

(b) The sale or transfer of an antique firearm;​

But, I'm NOT a lawyer nor do I play one on TV.

Enjoy.

Aloha, Mark

 

[ditchtiger]

(4) This section does not apply to:

(b) The sale or transfer of an antique firearm;​

I want the Oregon version.

 

[CountryGent]

This is the issue, the state law says it is needed. Went over this with my LGS friend and he saw it, grey as all get out. If a pre-98 gun was in the store he would only sell it through NICS, just to be sure.

I actually looked into this some months back. SB 941 has language that indicates antiques are exempt and they use the Federal definition for said: ""Antique firearm" has the meaning given that term in 18 U.S.C. 921;". So one would assume it is like it always has been for the last 50 years, no background check required.

While that would seem to be this case, this analysis sent to Senator Alan Olsen states otherwise and muddies the waters:

2. Does ORS 166.435 (section 2 of Senate Bill 941 (2015)) require a criminal background check prior to the private transfer of an antique firearm?

We think a court would find that, pursuant to ORS 166.435, a private party is required to request a criminal background check before the party may lawfully transfer an antique firearm. As noted above, ORS 166.460 exempts antique firearms from many Oregon laws regulating the transfer and possession of firearms. However, the Legislative Assembly did not add ORS 166.435 (section 2 of SB 941 (chapter 50, Oregon Laws 2015)) to the enumerated statutes in ORS 166.460 (1) that do not apply to antique firearms. Therefore, private parties who transfer antique firearms are not statutorily excluded from the obligation to initiate a criminal background check before transferring a firearm.

​

 

[ditchtiger]

"While that would seem to be this case, this analysis sent to Senator Alan Olsen states otherwise and muddies the waters:"

Yep, clear as mud.

 

[ma96782]

Oregon 166.412 (2015 ORS)
Definitions
(1)As used in this section:

(a)"Antique firearm" has the meaning given that term in 18 U.S.C. 921;​

(f)"Gun dealer" means a person engaged in the business, as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921, of selling, leasing or otherwise transferring a firearm, whether the person is a retail dealer, pawnbroker or otherwise;​

(2)Except as provided in subsections (3)(c)* and (12)** of this section, a gun dealer shall comply with the following before a handgun*** is delivered to a purchaser:

(a)The purchaser shall present to the dealer current identification meeting the requirements of subsection (4) of this section.​

(b)The gun dealer shall complete the firearms transaction record and obtain the signature of the purchaser on the record.​

(c)The gun dealer shall obtain the thumbprints of the purchaser on the firearms transaction thumbprint form and attach the form to the gun dealer's copy of the firearms transaction record to be filed with that copy.​

(d)The gun dealer shall request by telephone that the department conduct a criminal history record check on the purchaser and shall provide the following information to the department:​

(A)The federal firearms license number of the gun dealer;​

(B)The business name of the gun dealer;​

(C)The place of transfer;​

(D)The name of the person making the transfer;​

(E)The make, model, caliber and manufacturer's number of the handgun being transferred;​

(F)The name and date of birth of the purchaser;​

(G)The Social Security number of the purchaser if the purchaser voluntarily provides this number to the gun dealer; and​

(H)The type, issuer and identification number of the identification presented by the purchaser.​

(e)The gun dealer shall receive a unique approval number for the transfer from the department and record the approval number on the firearms transaction record and on the firearms transaction thumbprint form.​

(f)The gun dealer may destroy the firearms transaction thumbprint form five years after the completion of the firearms transaction thumbprint form.​

*
(3)

(a) Upon receipt of a request of the gun dealer for a criminal history record check, the department shall immediately, during the gun dealer's telephone call or by return call:​

(A)Determine, from criminal records and other information available to it, whether the purchaser is disqualified under ORS 166.470 (Limitations and conditions for sales of firearms) from completing the purchase; and​

(B)Notify the dealer when a purchaser is disqualified from completing the transfer or provide the dealer with a unique approval number indicating that the purchaser is qualified to complete the transfer.​

(b)If the department is unable to determine if the purchaser is qualified or disqualified from completing the transfer within 30 minutes, the department shall notify the dealer and provide the dealer with an estimate of the time when the department will provide the requested information.​

(c)If the department fails to provide a unique approval number to a gun dealer or to notify the gun dealer that the purchaser is disqualified under paragraph (a) of this subsection before the close of the gun dealer's next business day following the request by the dealer for a criminal history record check, the dealer may deliver the handgun to the purchaser.​

**
(12)This section does not apply to transactions between persons licensed as dealers under 18 U.S.C. 923.

***
Why only mention handguns? Have I missed something?
OK, Ok, ok.....Section 166.434(1). What a dumb (IMHO) way to write a law.

Note: This is from the 2015 ORS. So, my web search may be outdated. Based on my reading......the "antique" was not covered/given an exception. But, if anyone has a revised copy of the ORS please post it.

Aloha, Mark

PS......read this as it addresses "antiques"
http://www.oregonfirearms.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/lc0318-jlm-Antique-Firearm.pdf

Finally, while the plain text of ORS 166.435 does exempt certain types of firearm deliveries or transfers from the criminal background check requirements, antique firearms are not among the exceptions.

 

[justcuz]

Wait, please do not tell me the news as i'm now thoroughly devastated and truly in a state of major disrepair as the last couple of posts kinda contradict the stellar opinionated advice another member was previously espousing about how 50 years of 'large multi-million' dollar enterprises handle antique transfers.

Tell me isn't so...

 

[billdeserthills]

Theodore Roosevelt's 1898 $1,000,000 revolver

Theodore Roosevelt’s 1898 Revolver

The gun, a Smith & Wesson New Design No. 3 revolver dating to the late 1890s, had a hammer rate of $910,625.

whiskeyandbabes.com

 

[TTSX]

The thing that I find interesting is that a Winchester model 94 finished at closing on December 31, 1898 qualifies as antique but the very next one off the line and in serial sequence on January 1, 1899 does not. In theory, those two rifle are so nearly identical to each other, including machine marks from tooling wear as to be indistinguishable in every way but the law.

 

[titsonritz]

The thing that I find interesting is that a Winchester model 94 finished at closing on December 31, 1898 qualifies as antique but the very next one off the line and in serial sequence on January 1, 1899 does not. In theory, those two rifle are so nearly identical to each other, including machine marks from tooling wear as to be indistinguishable in every way but the law.

So, in other words, it makes about as much sense as the rest of the gun laws infringements.

 

[coop44]

So, no background for my muzzle loading cannon?

 

[Knobgoblin]

Geeez usss

 

[Howard1955]

Can I still buy or sell Pre-1898 firearms without a background check?

It's okay with me.