10mm and 45acp for hunting or bear protection

[The Heretic]

.45 ACP Ball ammo is very effective ...Just ask Sgt. York.

As demonstrated in the vid - IIRC - the 230 gr. MC bullet penetrated better plus it did expand. The expansion was delayed but that may be just what a person wants with certain shots - more penetration to get thru/past the heavy bones and then expansion when reaching the vital organs.

 

[ArtBrownSr]

Guys, remember to practice using the money rounds as well to adjust "Point of aim/ point of impact from the two different loads.
I do that with my 9 mm with FMJ 50 or so rounds of 147 FMJ and 8 or so of the 147 HST to make sure I know where it is going.

 

[DenimChicken]

I'm surprised that it's page 3 and everyone has been respectful and offered only their opinions, no absolutes. Must be a Christmas miracle. That being said, I'll give my opinion or 3.

Penetration is important and I'm not advocating carrying under powered rounds, but I have been surprised by the real life amounts of penetration guys have gotten out of supposed weak pistol rounds. A few years ago a guy killed a grizzly with a 9mm w/ Buffalo Bore. Would I choose a 9mm? No. Would a 10mm be my choice if I knew I was facing a pissed off griz? Probably not, but the moral of the story is a 10mm loaded with hard cast or even a JSP will do a respectable job on most anything given you do your part.

I do wish they made more JSP bullets in .40/10mm. Tons of JHP and lead, but besides for the Federal ammo, I'm not aware of many components available. I am interested to play around with some of the gimmicky "penetrator" rounds and see what they can do.

 

[Koda]

I will throw this into the mix to up the anti on the 45acp.
Double Tapp makes a 255g SWC hardcast lead 45acp,
Bullet : 255gr. Keith Style SWC Hardcast Lead
Ballistics : 875fps - 434 ft./lbs. - 5" bbl.
45 ACP+P 255gr. SWC Hardcast 20rds.


for those that dont have a 10mm that would be a good option for a woods load.

 

[ArtBrownSr]

Okay. I get everything that's being discussed and I'm appreciative of everything I can learn from.

Here's the deal. Most "performance" ammo in 10mm is hollow point. There's no soft point ammo available that I know of, so the Buffalo Bore lead and Underwood lead, and maybe a couple others are the only "performance" ammo available in a non-hollow point. I'm an advocate of, if the bullet is big enough to start with, it doesn't have to expand. The terminal ballistic test in the video of the .45 ball ammo bore this out. The trade off is devastating damage with less penetration, or less devastation but with increased penetration. That's where the hard hitters come in. A .44 or .45, in a solid lead design, still creates a substantial wound channel with tremendous penetration. That's my preference.

I was at the range sometime recently, and there happened to be another shooter that was a retiree of some capacity as an instructor with the FBI. I had this same discussion with him. They had trade off concerns also, between solid and hollow point bullets, so they loaded their magazines every other round with hollow points and solids.

Seems simple enough, but if you were claiming you were carrying a gun for large game hunting, in Oregon, ball ammo is not legal. So that's where a guy gets roped into carrying hollow points, unless again you step up to Buffalo Bore hard cast ammo. I also understand, if your gun is purely carried as defense, the ball ammo discussion could be moot, unless the State really did want to charge you with something. If you were carrying any firearm in a big game area, and you did have a hunting license and tag for the big game in the area, and you were loaded with hard ball, I think they'd have a case against you.

Where is all this going? I like "performance" ammo in a 10mm, but I wish there was a less explosive bullet option than hollow point, as in soft point. Otherwise, the Buffalo Bore and similar hardcast might be the only legal option.

Regarding Buffalo vs Underwood, I contacted my ammo store and he gave me this response:
Hi Arthur,

Both Underwood and Buffalo bore make high quality 10mm loads. Both of their 220 grain loads are virtually identical. Can't go wrong with either one!


Cody Brons
-----------------
Alaska Ammo

Anchorage: 907-868-7676
Fairbanks: 907-374-8008
Soldotna: 907-420-0800
www.alaskaammogroup.com

to this Question:
What is your opinion of Under wood 220 gr 10 mm vs Buffalo Bore 220gr 10 mm
Prices at this store
10mm - Buffalo Bore 220 Hardcast FN Outdoorsman
$31.95

10mm - Underwood 220gr Hardcast 20rnd Box

$26.95

 

[EPS]

I will throw this into the mix to up the anti on the 45acp.
Double Tapp makes a 255g SWC hardcast lead 45acp,
Bullet : 255gr. Keith Style SWC Hardcast Lead
Ballistics : 875fps - 434 ft./lbs. - 5" bbl.
45 ACP+P 255gr. SWC Hardcast 20rds.
View attachment 415862

for those that dont have a 10mm that would be a good option for a woods load.

Is that the one you where talking about last night that Razor used in Africa

 

[Koda]

Is that the one you where talking about last night that Razor used in Africa

I dont think Ive brought this 45 load up until now... 10mm has mostly dominated this thread so far.

 

[EPS]

I dont think Ive brought this 45 load up until now... 10mm has mostly dominated this thread so far.

That's right it was a 10mm

 

[Certaindeaf]

Regarding Buffalo vs Underwood, I contacted my ammo store and he gave me this response:
Hi Arthur,

Both Underwood and Buffalo bore make high quality 10mm loads. Both of their 220 grain loads are virtually identical. Can't go wrong with either one!


Cody Brons
-----------------
Alaska Ammo

Anchorage: 907-868-7676
Fairbanks: 907-374-8008
Soldotna: 907-420-0800
www.alaskaammogroup.com

to this Question:
What is your opinion of Under wood 220 gr 10 mm vs Buffalo Bore 220gr 10 mm
Prices at this store
10mm - Buffalo Bore 220 Hardcast FN Outdoorsman
$31.95

10mm - Underwood 220gr Hardcast 20rnd Box

$26.95

IIRC hickok45 tested those and they tumbled like crazy out of his Glock.

 

[DenimChicken]

IIRC hickok45 tested those and they tumbled like crazy out of his Glock.

From what I've seen, 200 gr seems to be the limit for accuracy in most pistols.

 

[orygun]

I will throw this into the mix to up the anti on the 45acp.
Double Tapp makes a 255g SWC hardcast lead 45acp,
Bullet : 255gr. Keith Style SWC Hardcast Lead
Ballistics : 875fps - 434 ft./lbs. - 5" bbl.
45 ACP+P 255gr. SWC Hardcast 20rds.
View attachment 415862

for those that dont have a 10mm that would be a good option for a woods load.

I used to shoot a bunch of SWC bullets out of revolvers, but never out of an auto. If there weren't any feeding issues, this would be a good bullet for large animals.

 

[Alexx1401]

[QUOTE="DenimChicken, post: 1836871,

I do wish they made more JSP bullets in .40/10mm. Tons of JHP and lead, but besides for the Federal ammo, I'm not aware of many components available. I am interested to play around with some of the gimmicky "penetrator" rounds and see what they can do.[/QUOTE]

Do you mean to roll your own and test? If so there is a seemingly endless supply of bullets for the 10 your could pick from. Since the .40 and 10 use the same bullet there are pages of them when you look. I will soon be rolling some for my 10 PCC since the factory is still pricey. Main hope is that the 10 will keep gaining popularity. The more demand there is the lower the price of factory ammo will go and the better the selection will become. It's all about what the buyers want. The popularity of the .40 is great for rolling your own 10. TONS of slugs to choose from due to that.

 

[ArtBrownSr]

Which one? The Buff or the Under?

 

[DenimChicken]

Do you mean to roll your own and test? If so there is a seemingly endless supply of bullets for the 10 your could pick from. Since the .40 and 10 use the same bullet there are pages of them when you look. I will soon be rolling some for my 10 PCC since the factory is still pricey. Main hope is that the 10 will keep gaining popularity. The more demand there is the lower the price of factory ammo will go and the better the selection will become. It's all about what the buyers want. The popularity of the .40 is great for rolling your own 10. TONS of slugs to choose from due to that.

I'm talking about reloading my own. I agree there are tons of FMJ, JHP, and hard cast lead bullets to choose from, but I haven't seen many offerings in a jacketed soft point. I haven't look very hard, but the Federal loaded ammo I posted a link to earlier is the only thing I've seen.

 

[Certaindeaf]

[QUOTE="DenimChicken, post: 1836871,
.TONS of slugs to choose from due to that.[/QUOTE]
Elmer Keith designed slugs for all these common calibers.
The classic function test for semi-auto feeding/function is it should feed empties. If it'll feed empties, it'll sure feed Keith slugs.

 

[Koda]

Main hope is that the 10 will keep gaining popularity. The more demand there is the lower the price of factory ammo will go and the better the selection will become. It's all about what the buyers want. The popularity of the .40 is great for rolling your own 10. TONS of slugs to choose from due to that.

I think the 10 has peaked in its popularity but will hold its own, its gained enough of a following anyways to keep it out of the wildcat class anyways. The problem is the 10 isn't popular for self defense pistols and the only thing thats kept it going is its versatility but mostly its usefulness with hunting and as a "woods guns". And for that reason I am also disappointed there are not more JSP options but its not surprising, there are few people who actually hunt with the 10.

 

[Alexx1401]

I'm talking about reloading my own. I agree there are tons of FMJ, JHP, and hard cast lead bullets to choose from, but I haven't seen many offerings in a jacketed soft point. I haven't look very hard, but the Federal loaded ammo I posted a link to earlier is the only thing I've seen.

OK, I see what you mean. Looked at a few of the big names and none I could see either. Berry makes some nice flat point lead core should come close. Would be interesting to roll some to test with. Will add that to my to do list. Graf did have one SPJ but it was some place I had never heard of and they were on closeout. So I would guess they did not sell well enough to keep them going.

 

[Koda]

I will throw this into the mix to up the anti on the 45acp.
Double Tapp makes a 255g SWC hardcast lead 45acp,
Bullet : 255gr. Keith Style SWC Hardcast Lead
Ballistics : 875fps - 434 ft./lbs. - 5" bbl.
45 ACP+P 255gr. SWC Hardcast 20rds.
View attachment 415862

for those that dont have a 10mm that would be a good option for a woods load.

I used to shoot a bunch of SWC bullets out of revolvers, but never out of an auto. If there weren't any feeding issues, this would be a good bullet for large animals.

SWC is an old school staple in 1911s I believe. I have a box of the Double Tapps but haven't fired any, haven't had any feeding issues chambering any though.

 

[Koda]

IIRC hickok45 tested those and they tumbled like crazy out of his Glock.

From what I've seen, 200 gr seems to be the limit for accuracy in most pistols.

yeah, but your not supposed to fire lead out of a Glock barrel.

 

[EPS]

yeah, but your not supposed to fire lead out of a Glock barrel.

You have to buy a after market barrel like STORM LAKE OR LONE WOLF