Yet another businesses leaves Portland

[TTSX]

How about reducing or (ideally)abolishing property taxes?

Exactly. Once I own it, it should be mine but since the state needs their cut I really don't ever own my property at all.

 

[nammac]

3 Oregon cities are among the best places to live in the US: 2024 report

Did your city make the list?

www.koin.com

"Portland was recognized as the 41st best city in Oregon, followed by Salem (108th) and Eugene (115th)."

Means.. that there are 40 cities better than Portland to move to.. and there are 107 cities better than Salem, 114 cities better than Eugene


Top 10 according to the new reports;

1. Naples, Florida
2. Boise, Idaho
3. Colorado Springs, Colorado
4. Greenville, South Carolina
5. Charlotte, North Carolina
6. Raleigh, North Carolina
7. Huntsville, Alabama
8. Virginia Beach, Virginia
9. Austin, Texas
10. Boulder, Colorado

Of these, Virginia and Colorado are pretty much liberal/blue States, am I wrong?

Edit. Seems 7 of 10 are South. Not one place in NE, not one place in Midwest, and closest to PNW is Idaho.

Edit. Also not 1 place on the West Coast

I'd do Naples, FL in half a heartbeat. Located on the Gulf coast, spent time there when I lived in Florida. Wouldn't be a bad place to retire to.

 

[Croat]

3 Oregon cities are among the best places to live in the US: 2024 report

Did your city make the list?

www.koin.com

"Portland was recognized as the 41st best city in Oregon, followed by Salem (108th) and Eugene (115th)."

Means.. that there are 40 cities better than Portland to move to.. and there are 107 cities better than Salem, 114 cities better than Eugene


Top 10 according to the new reports;

1. Naples, Florida
2. Boise, Idaho
3. Colorado Springs, Colorado
4. Greenville, South Carolina
5. Charlotte, North Carolina
6. Raleigh, North Carolina
7. Huntsville, Alabama
8. Virginia Beach, Virginia
9. Austin, Texas
10. Boulder, Colorado

Of these, Virginia and Colorado are pretty much liberal/blue States, am I wrong?

Edit. Seems 7 of 10 are South. Not one place in NE, not one place in Midwest, and closest to PNW is Idaho.

Edit. Also not 1 place on the West Coast

Lists like that are really dumb. Know which other cities made their list? Baltimore, Chicago, St. Louis, Cleveland, Detroit... I might excuse Cleveland, barely. And ranking Portland even at 41st (which is pretty sad compared to how the city was regarded even a decade ago) apparently takes no account of residents fleeing from Portland. That would be the real list to see, cities losing population like Portland compared to cities gaining population like Boise and Vancouver. Clearly, voting with your feet is the ultimate test to determine best and worst places to live.

 

[Barefootdog]

"Knudson said that to address homelessness, Eugene needs to make three resources available: more affordable housing, supportive services and shelter capacity...

Knudson said that as mayor she would advocate to state and federal officials for funding for these initiatives."

Same old song and dance.

The funny thing about this is the adjacent town of Springfield doesn't have beggars standing at intersections....or homeless camping all around that town.

I don't see either in Coburg to the north or Creswell or Cottage Grove to the south.

Eugene has these problems because they want them.......?
Maybe...I'm no expert

 

[made in china]

Exactly. Once I own it, it should be mine but since the state needs their cut I really don't ever own my property at all.

We bought our current home in 2012, it's now paid off.

However, the prop taxes are currently 60% of our original mortgage. I told my wife, within 10 years I wouldn't be surprised if our taxes matched our original mortgage.

Original mortgage was $1620/mo. Our current prop tax is $1000/mo.

Totally not worth it, and angers me that as a gov't employee, I have the actual insight to know my money is being completely wasted.

 

[TTSX]

We bought our current home in 2012, it's now paid off.

However, the prop taxes are currently 60% of our original mortgage. I told my wife, within 10 years I wouldn't be surprised if our taxes matched our original mortgage.

Original mortgage was $1620/mo. Our current prop tax is $1000/mo.

Totally not worth it, and angers me that as a gov't employee, I have the actual insight to know my money is being completely wasted.

Do you have a million dollar home?? Mine is worth about 250k, prop taxes less than $3k/year

 

[Croat]

Do you have a million dollar home?? Mine is worth about 250k, prop taxes less than $3k/year

A while back I had a coworker who lived in Portland. He had a much smaller home there, but our assessed property values were nearly identical. We compared our respective property taxes, and what a shocker. He paid more than twice the property tax that I did. Bit of an eye opener that.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Isn't property tax rate based on the current estimated home value?

 

[TTSX]

Isn't property tax rate based on the current estimated home value?

Yes.... Sort of. On my tax form, it says "real market value" and "taxable value" are very different. They both go up every year. I think they just pull a number out of their rears and say "F U, pay me"

 

[Certaindeaf]

A while back I had a coworker who lived in Portland. He had a much smaller home there, but our assessed property values were nearly identical. We compared our respective property taxes, and what a shocker. He paid more than twice the property tax that I did. Bit of an eye opener that.

That's why everybody that lives in Washington works in Oregon.

 

[Provincial]

Oregon property taxes are limited by constitutional amendments passed by the voters, Measure 5 and Measure 50. They passed because spending by government entities using property tax had gone out of control. A brief history of this is available here:

https://www.oregonencyclopedia.org/articles/measure_5_property_taxes/

Property taxes have been around for a very long time. The rationale for taxing property came from the pre-industrial economy, where nearly all wealth was generated by natural resources, like farming, ranching, mining, and lumbering. Land generated wealth, and the reasoning went, if you did not generate enough income from your land, to pay the taxes and a living, you shouldn't own it and it should be sold to someone who would use it to the proper extent.

Economics changed, with manufacturing, trade and services becoming important. Local governments remained tied to the property tax, mostly because it did not fluctuate the revenue stream very much, and also because it was easy to track and value who owned property.

As time went on, property taxes shifted the burden to homes as more people became able to afford individual homes. Governments rationalized taxing non-productive property with the reasoning "we provide services to these homes, so they need to pay their share." Remember, property taxes are not related to ability to pay, only valuation. This lead to a revolt by taxpayers that culminated in the two ballot measures.

 

[Provincial]

If you want the Oregon Department of Revenue version of the story, check this out.

https://www.oregon.gov/DOR/programs/gov-research/Documents/303-405-1.pdf

Notice that they do not mention that the two measures were Constitutional Amendments!

 

[Croat]

Property tax is measured by "millage rate." Millage rate is the amount of property tax levied against the people per $1,000 of assessed valuation in any given year. Almost every county in the nation issues a Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (CAFR) which shows the total millage rate for its local governments, including the county, its cities, and special purpose districts. The latest available CAFR to compare the millage rate between Multnomah County, Oregon and Clark County, Washington is from 2022. According to Multnomah County, its 2022 millage rate was $26.02. According to Clark County, its 2022 millage rate was 12.56.

To see how that translates, Multnomah County's millage rate of $26.02 applied against a property assessed at $500,000 results in a property tax bill of $13,010. In Clark County, that same property assessed at $500,000 would get a property tax bill of only $6,280 -- less than half what Multnomah County charges. Bear in mind that these 2022 millage rates are after the "taxpayer revolt" in Oregon that was supposedly intended to put a lid on property taxes.

 

[ma96782]

Multnomah County's millage rate of $26.02 applied against a property assessed at $500,000 results in a property tax bill of $13,010. In Clark County, that same property assessed at $500,000 would get a property tax bill of only $6,280 -- less than half what Multnomah County charges. Bear in mind that these 2022 millage rates are after the "taxpayer revolt" in Oregon that was supposedly intended to put a lid on property taxes.

BUT, But, but........

You missed the fact that WA OR residents pay an income tax. Whereas, an OR WA resident does NOT.

Aloha, Mark

PS.....
Croat,
Thanks for catching that huge mistake.

 

[Croat]

BUT, But, but........

You missed the fact that WA residents pay an income tax. Whereas, an OR resident does NOT.

I think you got that backwards...

 

[The Heretic]

I think you got that backwards...

Yes - I was in for some sticker shock when I moved back to Oregon (from Seattle area). Although sales tax in WA state is high, since I kept my purchases to mostly necessities, the amount I paid was realtively low - the biggest expenses were sales tax on vehicles and license tabs - so usually between $1-2K per year, if that. In WA state I owned no property.

Then I came back to Oregon and between federal & state income tax, I started paying five to ten times in income tax vs. what I paid in sales tax in WA. Now that I am retired I have very little taxable income after deductions and last year I paid $500 federal income tax and zero state income tax. But I paid $4500 property tax.

IIRC, there is (or was) limits on how much increase in property value assessments per year for Oregon.

 

[Alexx1401]

Wife who tends to pay little to no attention most of the time got real mad about this. Bought new tabs for one of our vehicles. Out of the $320 fee $200 of it was for that rip off Sound Transit that they forced down our throats. I just shrugged and told her again, people here keep voting for this, so they keep getting what they ask for.

 

[Croat]

Yes - I was in for some sticker shock when I moved back to Oregon (from Seattle area). Although sales tax in WA state is high, since I kept my purchases to mostly necessities, the amount I paid was realtively low - the biggest expenses were sales tax on vehicles and license tabs - so usually between $1-2K per year, if that. In WA state I owned no property.

Then I came back to Oregon and between federal & state income tax, I started paying five to ten times in income tax vs. what I paid in sales tax in WA. Now that I am retired I have very little taxable income after deductions and last year I paid $500 federal income tax and zero state income tax. But I paid $4500 property tax.

IIRC, there is (or was) limits on how much increase in property value assessments per year for Oregon.

In reality the cost difference between Portland and Seattle is worse than you think simply due to the economic prowess of Seattle vs. the economic weakness of Portland. Statistics from the federal Bureau of Economic Analysis tell the tale. The average per-capita income (for 2022) in The Seattle-Tacoma Metropolitan Statistical Area was $92,113 vs. the per-capita income for the Portland-Vancouver MSA at only $69,435. With incomes 33% higher in the Seattle-Tacoma area, the average person moving back to Portland gets a double whammy of massive increase in income tax plus a one-third drop in income.

We can get more specific and compare just King County (Seattle) to Multnomah County (Portland). Then it gets really bad. Average per-capita income in King County is a whopping 63% higher than Multnomah County ($113,819 vs. only $69,954). Very few people could sustain that much of an economic hit by moving from Seattle to Portland, and on top of that having to pay, as you say, five to ten times more income tax to boot.

 

[Mikej]

It's not what we pay that is the pisser. It's how "THEY" spend what they take from us. Those Bastiges would not run their own households the way they spend OUR money!
Wasteful!
Wasteful!
Wasteful!

 

[The Heretic]

In reality the cost difference between Portland and Seattle is worse than you think simply due to the economic prowess of Seattle vs. the economic weakness of Portland. Statistics from the federal Bureau of Economic Analysis tell the tale. The average per-capita income (for 2022) in The Seattle-Tacoma Metropolitan Statistical Area was $92,113 vs. the per-capita income for the Portland-Vancouver MSA at only $69,435. With incomes 33% higher in the Seattle-Tacoma area, the average person moving back to Portland gets a double whammy of massive increase in income tax plus a one-third drop in income.

We can get more specific and compare just King County (Seattle) to Multnomah County (Portland). Then it gets really bad. Average per-capita income in King County is a whopping 63% higher than Multnomah County ($113,819 vs. only $69,954). Very few people could sustain that much of an economic hit by moving from Seattle to Portland, and on top of that having to pay, as you say, five to ten times more income tax to boot.

FWIW - when I moved to Oregon, it was for a higher salary than I ever made in the Seattle area.

Also, for as bad as Portland was or is, Downtown Seattle is/was worse - even 10-15 years ago, it was worse then, than Portland is now. I very much hated going downtown. When I first moved to the Seattle area in the late 80s it wasn't all that bad - although I didn't work in downtown Seattle, I occasionally visited it and it wasn't bad. But from about 2008 to 2010 I worked there and I hated it.

Most of the high income in the greater Seattle area comes from high-tech, mostly software/et. al., but also bio-tech, and then there is (or was) Boeing. So yeah, that all drives up the median income. Back in the 80s, there just wasn't much in Portland except Intel (and a few chip fabs) and Tektronix (which was on its way down the drain). HP had a few plants/etc. - but that was pretty much it.

I got out of college just when Tektronix laid off a bunch of people and my AS EE degree meant nothing against experienced engineers with 4 year degrees. Bad timing. I almost wound up in S. Calif., but luckily got a job over the phone in Kent, WA and from there I went up the ladder. Twenty five years later I was finally able to come back "home" and get a stable job with a good salary. I probably could have made more in Seattle, but that time around (I was unemployed plenty of times there) I snagged my last job before retirement, at DTNA.