XS Big Dot Sights

[Pops1911]

Put some XS Big Dot sights on my Shield 9mm. This is the first target at 7 yards that I shot. The big front sight seems to help at this range. Out to 10 yards the pattern opened up a little but everything was still in an 8 inch circle. Nice combat sights IMHO. Pops

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[mkwerx]

Used them on many a pistol before. Fast target acquisition - good for quick & dirty shooting. I find myself preferring a more traditional notch & post sight system now though - with a big rear gap and a thin front blade. I've finally settled on AmeriGlo I-DOT Pros as the sights for me. I wish the rear sight were serrated vs flat, but that's my only complaint about them. They're a dot-over-dot configuration. I despise 3 dot sights, especially 3 dots all the same color. There is no mistaking low light sight picture on a straight-8 type sight alignment.

 

[Dungannon]

I have them on a Shield 9mm and a Glock 19. Still have 20-20 distance vision but need reading glasses for close up, so the big dot front sight is easy to place just under the point of aim. I can tell the fuzzy rear dot is under the front big dot but that's about it. I like them for compact guns.

 

[clearconscience]

I was just thinking about switching over to these. I've never been good with the stock sights with a front post.

I don't think you can beat these for the price.

 

[NWMA]

I know a lot of guys like these, and I also recognize that eyes don't get better with age...but something to consider...

At the distances the big dot sights work well, you really don't need sights. In a defensive situation at close range you will do quite well with point shooting. (Try this in a force on force class...you will find that the sights are not used at all)

In cases where there is enough time to and additional accuracy is required, that big front sight covers the target. To hit something, you need a good index on the target. That's hard to do when you can't see it.

Imagine a bad guy not fully behind cover, with just a sliver of flesh available to hit. Or the need to take a shot past a loved one. Or the need to take a longer distance pistol shot. A thin, sharp front sight post is far more conducive to achieving good accuracy.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I know a lot of guys like these, and I also recognize that eyes don't get better with age...but something to consider...

At the distances the big dot sights work well, you really don't need sights. In a defensive situation at close range you will do quite well with point shooting. (Try this in a force on force class...you will find that the sights are not used at all)

In cases where there is enough time to and additional accuracy is required, that big front sight covers the target. To hit something, you need a good index on the target. That's hard to do when you can't see it.

Imagine a bad guy not fully behind cover, with just a sliver of flesh available to hit. Or the need to take a shot past a loved one. Or the need to take a longer distance pistol shot. A thin, sharp front sight post is far more conducive to achieving good accuracy.

So on one hand you're saying you don't need sights and on the other you're saying you need target sights.
Cooper would say "front sight", period.. and XS sights are fast and accurate.

 

[NWMA]

So on one hand you're saying you don't need sights and on the other you're saying you need target sights.
Cooper would say "front sight", period.. and XS sights are fast and accurate.

No. I'm saying that there are some circumstances where you don't need sights at all, and others where you do.

At close distance, when a bad guy is not under cover, one can point shoot. And that's what most people WILL do under stress at that range.

At distances beyond point shooting range (7yards or so), one must get a more refined sight picture. A sharp front sight post allows much more refined index on the target, whether that's a small target relatively close or a body shot at long distance.

Big dot sights are fast. But there accuracy is limited outside the envelope they were designed for.

Not every problem is the same and we don't know what our fight is going to be. It might be at bad breath distance where it's practically a contact shot. It might be taking a face shot across a crowded room. Or it might be an active shooter at 100 yards.

Big dots were great in a very specific window. But they are an impediment to shooters trying to sharpen and develop their skill outside that window.

Don't take my word for it. Try again aiming for eyeballs at 10 yards. Or a body at 100.

 

[Pandaz3]

The Kahr CW-380 has a copy of sorts, rear sight is a black shallow 'V' with a small white vertical line up the middle and the front sight is a bigger White dot, not as big as XS's is, but big in proportion to the gun. I am most accurate with this gun of the eight pocket pistols I have and part of that is due to the sights I believe.

 

[Certaindeaf]

No. I'm saying that there are some circumstances where you don't need sights at all, and others where you do.

At close distance, when a bad guy is not under cover, one can point shoot. And that's what most people WILL do under stress at that range.

At distances beyond point shooting range (7yards or so), one must get a more refined sight picture. A sharp front sight post allows much more refined index on the target, whether that's a small target relatively close or a body shot at long distance.

Big dot sights are fast. But there accuracy is limited outside the envelope they were designed for.

Not every problem is the same and we don't know what our fight is going to be. It might be at bad breath distance where it's practically a contact shot. It might be taking a face shot across a crowded room. Or it might be an active shooter at 100 yards.

Big dots were great in a very specific window. But they are an impediment to shooters trying to sharpen and develop their skill outside that window.

Don't take my word for it. Try again aiming for eyeballs at 10 yards. Or a body at 100.

Seven yards under real pressure? Most people will do very poorly no matter what they do, to include using (trying to) use their sights.. they will miss.. though they'll try their darndest and really think beforehand that those shots are "gimme's" and that they can just point.
As I said, use/FOCUS ON your front sight at all but retention distances (or you'll miss, read above again) and that XS sights are fast and accurate.

 

[Pandaz3]

No. I'm saying that there are some circumstances where you don't need sights at all, and others where you do.

At close distance, when a bad guy is not under cover, one can point shoot. And that's what most people WILL do under stress at that range.

At distances beyond point shooting range (7yards or so), one must get a more refined sight picture. A sharp front sight post allows much more refined index on the target, whether that's a small target relatively close or a body shot at long distance.

Big dot sights are fast. But there accuracy is limited outside the envelope they were designed for.

Not every problem is the same and we don't know what our fight is going to be. It might be at bad breath distance where it's practically a contact shot. It might be taking a face shot across a crowded room. Or it might be an active shooter at 100 yards.

Big dots were great in a very specific window. But they are an impediment to shooters trying to sharpen and develop their skill outside that window.

Don't take my word for it. Try again aiming for eyeballs at 10 yards. Or a body at 100.

I would just use the apex of that big front ball, that should center me laterally at least.. I do know what you are saying as my little 1911 has Plain black sights with a very narrow front sight. The XS system is more advanced than my normal three dot sights as it has that narrow centering bar on the rear sight which I use to help me split that ball at the Apex. Works for me.

 

[NWMA]

I've run many Force on Force classes. Where distances are anywhere from contact to 10 yards. In every class, to make a point, I ask students what kind of sight picture they see. Invariably, they admit that they see no sights at all...just the slide superimposed on the opponents body.

They make hits just fine. That's with pressure, moving at full speed, with sims flying back at them.

Point shooting does work, in fact it's very natural. People over complicate things.

Cooper knew what he was talking about but he also wasn't as absolutist as people think. He was practical and realized that different tools work for different circumstances.

Anyway, not saying that the XS sights are a bad product, simply stating they are for a specific problem. If they work for a guy, great. But when he stretches his abilities he will find their limitations.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I've run many Force on Force classes. Where distances are anywhere from contact to 10 yards. In every class, to make a point, I ask students what kind of sight picture they see. Invariably, they admit that they see no sights at all...just the slide superimposed on the opponents body.

They make hits just fine. That's with pressure, moving at full speed, with sims flying back at them.

Point shooting does work, in fact it's very natural. People over complicate things.

Cooper knew what he was talking about but he also wasn't as absolutist as people think. He was practical and realized that different tools work for different circumstances.

Anyway, not saying that the XS sights are a bad product, simply stating they are for a specific problem. If they work for a guy, great. But when he stretches his abilities he will find their limitations.

You're still contradicting yourself, saying that sights at 10 yards are unnecessary yet one needs target sights to hit beyond that and your preposition is flawed saying that XS sights are for a specific problem that you fail to clarify.
I'm saying that you can see XS sights (I don't use the big'un, just the regular size) very easily and hit with them without even trying.. because you can see them/it very easily and clearly. That's the way iron sights and the human eye work.. you can only focus on one thing at a time physically.. make that thing the front sight and you will hit.

 

[clearconscience]

Still comes down to the age old idea,
Use what works for you.

Personally I have different pistols for different situations.
For instance I would put these on my g20 and g26.
The 26 for carry and fast target sight and the g20 for my woods gun also possible fast target sight.

If I'm in a situation where the target is 100yards away, that is no longer a defensive situation, and my duty is to flee.

If your target shooting for distance then you would want target sights for that purpose.

 

[P7M13]

 

[Certaindeaf]

Jeez, what a boring fool. I doubt very much he's actually used XS sights and or is just a terrible shot.. "What if you have to take a shot beyond 5 yards?!" (referring to XS sights).
wow

 

[P7M13]

Jeez, what a boring fool. I doubt very much he's actually used XS sights and or is just a terrible shot.. "What if you have to take a shot beyond 5 yards?!" (referring to XS sights).
wow

LOL. There was another video review that I thought was better, I just couldn't find it in my history.
I was looking at sights to replace the standard ones in my Kimber. Wound up selling it and getting a CDP with night sights as a part of the package.

I have had target sights, standard 3-dot sights, 3 dot "combat sights" (wide U, very narrow front blade), and the Steyr trapezoidal. Combat sights are my favorite because it's very easy for me to assess the gap on each side while concentrating on the front blade. The trapezoids are slow to acquire, and I suck, plain and simple, with target sights.

 

[Certaindeaf]

LOL. There was another video review that I thought was better, I just couldn't find it in my history.
I was looking at sights to replace the standard ones in my Kimber. Wound up selling it and getting a CDP with night sights as a part of the package.

I have had target sights, standard 3-dot sights, 3 dot "combat sights" (wide U, very narrow front blade), and the Steyr trapezoidal. Combat sights are my favorite because it's very easy for me to assess the gap on each side while concentrating on the front blade. The trapezoids are slow to acquire, and I suck, plain and simple, with target sights.

I "like" all sights, pretty much. They all "work".. even to include a simple rudimentary groove in little .25 acp's., if you know what you're doing. You can hit stuff.
Nice sharp, crisp and freshly blackened target sights to the XS sight.. which you really just forget about the rear "v" in actual fast use. Just put the dot on it and press. Quite surprising. And fast. If you want real accurate, just pay a tiny bit of attention to the rear also and you'll land 'em anywhere you want.

 

[NWMA]

You're still contradicting yourself, saying that sights at 10 yards are unnecessary yet one needs target sights to hit beyond that and your preposition is flawed saying that XS sights are for a specific problem that you fail to clarify.

I'm a believer in using what works for you. So if a guy shoots well with his choice of equipment, more power to you. But I was trying to make a point and apparently haven't explained it well, so I'll try one more time...

I'm saying that we have the ability to choose the appropriate technique (point shooting or aimed fire) at the appropriate time. In any fight, there is a balance between speed and accuracy. Circumstances dictate where the emphasis needs to be. Close, reactive situations dictate speed. Smaller or more distant targets dictate more accuracy.

Different tools/techniques for different problems. Where is the contradiction?

Big dot sights are great for close problems emphasizing speed. No argument. But when there's a greater need for accuracy they fall short as compared to regular combat sights (I never mentioned target sights).

Imagine the bad guys elbow sticking out just beyond cover. Whether using a big dot or a normal sight, of course we focus on the front sight. But with small targets, the big dot completely occludes the target, while with regular sights we can still see the target (out of focus but nonetheless in our sight picture) and we KNOW the sight is on target. When the big dot covers the target it is rather like shooting on faith.

Big dots work great when there is plenty of target (meat) surrounding the front sight. But when that's the case, pointing at the target is sufficient. Seeing the target surrounding the metal of your slide is enough to ensure good hits. Big dot sights shine in precisely the situations you don't need sights. They do not serve as well in situations requiring greater accuracy.

Look at a rifle reticle. Which will allow more precision, a thick reticle or a thin one?

As to point shooting, don't take my word for it. One, try it for yourself in force on force training.

Or read Charles Askins. He knew a thing or two about gun fights (yes, there are other ideas out there besides Cooper).

Askins on point shooting:
I sometimes think we overdid the refinements we have added to the one-hand gun. For instance, the hardware lays 'em in faster when the sights are disregarded. If you are really bent on speed, a one-hand shooting iron has got to be pointed and not aimed. It is that kind of a tool. Sights on a handgun are just like gyro-stabilizers on a wheelbarrow—nice but not necessary. The handgun was designed for defense, and even though that salient fact is oft-times disregarded, it is still true.

For speed, no sights

Sights, when you are actually in a hurry with a six-gun, just complicate an otherwise simple item. Too, these appurtenances confuse the picture, tend to give rise to false hopes, and by inference promise a performance that inherently cannot be. A six-shooter for speed work needs neither a front post nor a notched rear. When you are really in a hurry, the sights add nothing: by the same token they do not get much in the way either. You simply do not see them. [This is why I'm suggesting that regular combat sights are a better choice. Point shooting distances sights aren't needed, and more precise sights are needed outside that envelope]

The handgun can be made to hit by pointing. Not by pointing in the sense that you look through the sights but rather by directing the weapon just as you point your finger. Thus manhandled, the six-gun is effective. Of course, you do not hit at 50 yards but you do connect at practical distances. The art of shooting by pointing is so little explored that no one knows just what the ultimate possibilities may be.

What are the possibilities?

What can be done by simply extending the weapon, either at eye level or hip level, and then triggering off a half-dozen quick salvos? Among other things, the slugs can be fitted very neatly inside a head-size target at 20 feet and all in a limit of two or three seconds for the six-shot burst. Or if you like to vary the fun, you can pour three bullets into the head and three into the chest of a silhouette target and the time is extended only some tenths of a second.

The somewhat quaint notion persists that any kind of gun fire not tied to a careful alignment of the sights simply cannot be accurate. Hits are luck, and of a kind that won't repeat itself. This reasoning stems from only a half-knowledge of the capabilities of the one-hand gun.
The revolver or automatic never really comes into its own until the piece is fired by pointing, at moderate to short ranges, and in a time-space that rolls the three-, four-, or six-shot burst into one sweet ripple of gun fire.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Elmer Keith's front sight on his 4" .44 magnum was 1/8" wide.. I believe he made plenty of remarkable long range shots with that rig. Understatement of the century. He could also cut a man in two with the same rig while using two, double action of course, instinct shooting at closer range.
I understand the concept of hitting targets with guns. lol

 

[PaulB47]

At the distances the big dot sights work well, you really don't need sights.

I'm not buying the idea, that within a certain range no sights at all are needed, while outside it, target sights are needed. Or ordinary combat sights, whatever. This asks us to accept a discontinuity. What it this magic distance?

Seems to me, up to contact distances, the big dot simply cannot hurt. Ignore it if you are not using it. At 100 yards, the .166" dot covers a 20" (or so) diameter, just right for the human torso. No harm there either although it might tell you how far the target is, which can't hurt. In between, they are just right. Obscuring a small target? Yeah, I suppose you could think up a few improbable scenarios where the big dots get in the way. Shoot through the wall then! I can think up some scenarios where the extra size is helpful too, such as poorly-illuminated targets.

There must be some reason the big dot on top of a V rear is valued for shooting dangerous African game with a rifle.

I have been impressed while shooting in a hurry, how easy it is to miss with any pistol, even at ranges that seem quite close. But then I am not a competition shooter. I do like a big white dot and think having an obvious front sight is a good aid to shooting.