Washington Would pistol frame be transferred as "Other" firearm, handgun or rifle in WA State?

[arakboss]

Question in title. But here are a few examples of where my question would be applied.

Example 1: I own a Glock frame that I purchased as a complete handgun but sold the slide. If I sold the frame would it be transferred as a handgun or "other firearm?

Example 2: The Glock frame describe above was at on time converted to a carbine rifle format but then stripped back down to frame only. Would frame be transferred as "other" firearm, handgun or rifle?

Example 3: A WA resident purchases serialized Glock frame from online FFL. When that person goes to pick up his frame at WA FFL will it be transferred as " "Other" firearm or handgun?

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[Ops]

its an other, depends on the FFL if they know the law

 

[Red98422]

Glock frames all leave the factory as pistols. Therefore no matter what you've converted it to or from it remains a pistol.

 

[arakboss]

Two replies and two different answers already. This was the same issue I came up with when using a search engine for the answer. It appears different FFLs handle them differently. I will call around today and see if I can get any kind of consensus.

 

[fredridge]

I recently bought a serialized polymer80 and my FFL handled it like a regular pistol. This was in Wa.

when I asked he said because it was a pistol lower he had to do that.This is in Wa and he seemed to be fairly knowledgeable on laws and changes.
I know this doesn't help, but was my experience.

 

[Red98422]

Two replies and two different answers already. This was the same issue I came up with when using a search engine for the answer. It appears different FFLs handle them differently. I will call around today and see if I can get any kind of consensus.

Definitely do that we are just some people on the inter webs, they'll be the one who your dealing with.

Unlike the AR platform the glocks never leave the factory as a rifle. Technically speaking an FFL isn't supposed to release any lowers as others unless one of two conditions are met.
1) the lower is virgin
2) the lower has never been pinned into an upper

Now I know some will transfer as other as long as it's not pinned when it comes through the door but that's more due to "plausible deniability" than a hard and fast rule.

This is all one big mess of BS laws anyways so I'm not against the NICS checks for lowers, it just might turn out that your out of luck transferring that particular item as an other due to its nature.

 

[arakboss]

I recently bought a serialized polymer80 and my FFL handled it like a regular pistol. This was in Wa.

when I asked he said because it was a pistol lower he had to do that.This is in Wa and he seemed to be fairly knowledgeable on laws and changes.
I know this doesn't help, but was my experience.

That is one situation where I thought for sure a frame should be transferred as an "Other" firearm. Weird!

 

[fredball]

I don't know what Oregon's Laws are but here in Washington , If you buy a lower receiver that is just a receiver I would transfer it as OTHER
It;s not a complete firearm,
but only Washington resident can make transfer same for Oregon residents
so and oregon resident can't drive over here buy a stripped receiver or pistol receiver incomplete gun and take it home with out it going thru FFL in his or her state

 

[arakboss]

I don't know what Oregon's Laws are but here in Washington , If you buy a lower receiver that is just a receiver I would transfer it as OTHER
It;s not a complete firearm

What about G22 stripped frame?

 

[fredball]

it would have to be shipped to and FFL in Oregon and then buyer would do transfer in Oregon

 

[fredball]

long guns that are complete as in Bolt rifles only since I-1639 passed are legal for Oregon residents to purchase from Washington
Does that make sense

 

[Alexx1401]

Two replies and two different answers already. This was the same issue I came up with when using a search engine for the answer. It appears different FFLs handle them differently. I will call around today and see if I can get any kind of consensus.

The only reason something like an AR lower is "other" is if the people who made it registered its build as just the lower, nothing else. So it was never a rifle or a pistol. As mentioned Glock does as far as I kknow not sell frames. So if the frame in question was registered with the BATF as a pistol it's always a pistol.

 

[fredball]

The only reason something like an AR lower is "other" is if the people who made it registered its build as just the lower, nothing else. So it was never a rifle or a pistol. As mentioned Glock does as far as I kknow not sell frames. So if the frame in question was registered with the BATF as a pistol it's always a pistol.

Yes they do sell just frames

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[Alexx1401]

Yes they do sell just frames

In that case if you could get them to sell one they never built out it "should" be the same as an AR lower. I know you can't just take the slide of one and then treat it like it was never a pistol which is what some seem to want to do. But if you can get the manufacturer to sell you just a frame through an FFl this should work fine.

 

[coop44]

I ordered a 1911 frame from caspian, it was sent to my ffl and transferred as a receiver.

 

[arakboss]

I ordered a 1911 frame from caspian, it was sent to my ffl and transferred as a receiver.

Based on this info, I would think most frames, glock or otherwise should be transferred as "Other" firearms:

Question 16.
Type of Firearm(s): "Other" refers to frames, receivers and other firearms that are neither handguns nor long guns (rifles or shotguns), such as firearms having a pistol grip that expel a shotgun shell, or National Firearms Act (NFA) firearms, including silencers. If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver not a handgun or long gun. However, frames and receivers are still "firearms" by definition, and subject to the same GCA limitations as any other firearms. See Section 921(a)(3)(B). Section 922(b)(1) makes it unlawful for a licensee to sell any firearm other than a shotgun or rifle to any person under the age of 21. Since a frame or receiver for a firearm, to include one that can only be made into a long gun, is a "firearm other than a shotgun or rifle," it cannot be transferred to anyone under the age of 21, nor can these firearms be transferred to anyone who is not a resident of the State where the transfer is to take place. Also, note that multiple sales forms are not required for frames or receivers of any firearms, or pistol grip shotguns, since they are not "pistols or revolvers" under Section 923(g)(3)(A).

 

[arakboss]

Based on this info, I would think most frames, glock or otherwise should be transferred as "Other" firearms:

Question 16.
Type of Firearm(s): "Other" refers to frames, receivers and other firearms that are neither handguns nor long guns (rifles or shotguns), such as firearms having a pistol grip that expel a shotgun shell, or National Firearms Act (NFA) firearms, including silencers. If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver not a handgun or long gun. However, frames and receivers are still "firearms" by definition, and subject to the same GCA limitations as any other firearms. See Section 921(a)(3)(B). Section 922(b)(1) makes it unlawful for a licensee to sell any firearm other than a shotgun or rifle to any person under the age of 21. Since a frame or receiver for a firearm, to include one that can only be made into a long gun, is a "firearm other than a shotgun or rifle," it cannot be transferred to anyone under the age of 21, nor can these firearms be transferred to anyone who is not a resident of the State where the transfer is to take place. Also, note that multiple sales forms are not required for frames or receivers of any firearms, or pistol grip shotguns, since they are not "pistols or revolvers" under Section 923(g)(3)(A).

An FFL could argue the idea that the frame might likely have been a pistol before and should be still be a pistol but that same argument could also be made for an obviously used AR lower receiver. I have never had an AR lower receiver (including second hand purchases) transferred as anything other then an "other" firearm. A G22 frame could have been made in to a rifle, a pistol or some other type of "other" firearm. It seems to me that trying to guess what the frame was prior to it showing up at FFL as a just a frame would be a more difficult decision to make compared to just following the simple advice above in ATF's answer to Question 16.

 

[arakboss]

Imagine you walk in to an Oregon FFL with a complete AR rifle and separate the upper from the lower to sell the lower to an 18 year old person who met you there. You ask the FFL to transfer the lower to the 18 year old as a rifle, what do you think the FFL would do? My guess is the FFL says I can't transfer the lower to the 18 year with out the upper because it would be an "other" firearm and you have to be 21 years or older. Am I wrong?

 

[fredball]

I washington you have to be 21 for any transaction

 

[ActionHero1980]

That is one situation where I thought for sure a frame should be transferred as an "Other" firearm. Weird!

I am finding that almost every shop/FFL that I talk to has a different understanding of current laws. It's frustrating.